2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, CP, where ~15th makes you the very worst franchise in the league!

15th consistently is much different than a Chicago or Pittsburgh where you're 30th for a while then dominate the league for 10 years.

I think most people could settle for the highs with a cost of some lows.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Who says the playoffs are the only thing that counts? People who think that way are setting themselves up for disappointment and have forfeited all right to complain about it. You might as well play roulette and complain that 23 never comes up when you want it.

No one said it's the only thing that count. But they also are below average at the only other thing that counts.

Below Average in regular season and Terrible in playoffs.

What other conclusion can we make? You provided the stats showing we are 17th in regular season wins over the timespan. That's below average. You may have the lowest standards for success of anyone I have seen. I would think you were trolling if you were a new poster.

I can't believe anyone can actually argue that over the past 15 years this team has been anything but terrible.

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

CP, where ~15th is good enough!

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, CP, where ~15th makes you the very worst franchise in the league!

More like: CP, a place where haikus do nothing to lighten the mood!

[Shazam]

Well I feel better knowing the Flames are mediocre in the regular season and bad in the playoffs.

Commence the bad personnel decisions!

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by nik-

When was the last time the Flames were the better team in a first round loss?

Easily that series against the Ducks in 16-17 that ended in a Sweep because we got some of the worst goaltending ever.

Corsi For: 51.2%
xGF: 57.8%
Save Percentage: .886

High Danger Goals For: 8
High Danger Goals Against: 5

Medium Danger Goals For: 1
Medium Danger Goals Against: 1

Low Danger Goals For: 0
Low Danger Goals Against: 7!!!!

Flames were easily the better team in that series, but our goalies let in 7 low danger goals against. Still didn't score enough goals that series, but we were the better team and the team was just shellshocked by the goals against all series long.

Since then they got overrun by a Colorado team who seems to be able to run over teams in round 1, then loses in round 2. Beat the Jets in the play in round. And then were 10 seconds way from being up 3-1 on the Stars before losing that series in a typical Flames collapse.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I think a lot of CP posters are grown ups

I don’t think of too many of them as angry.

We may read the site differently

Agreed. The only two posters whose posts I read as angry most of the time are Jay Random and Lanny_McDonald.

[Tkachukwagon]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1417255160166895619

[Roof-Daddy]

Flames are an average at best regular season team that has gotten past round 1 once in 15 years and we are supposed to be happy about that?

Yeah, not this fan. Each to their own I guess.

[1qqaaz]

I've always wondered if the millennials and Gen Zers are more likely to have a negative outlook toward the Flames than the older generations (if they haven't grown disinterested altogether)

I'm a millennial and I've never really known anything other than mediocrity. So there's no real source of optimism that I've ever perceived.
As a fan, the most captivating thing I've seen was the emergence of Jarome Iginla, since he was legitimately among the best players in the world for a while.

It also seems like many older fans just like to watch hockey for the sake of watching hockey - they don't actually have that much of a rooting interest.
My grandpa watches every game, but I don't actually think could care less about the outcome.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, CP, where ~15th makes you the very worst franchise in the league!

If you are looking at a snapshot, 15th isn't bad at all. Just missed the playoffs.

BUT...when you draft at around 15 or so, you're not getting an elite prospect to help push you into the playoffs. If if the team is already on the decline and misses the playoffs it isn't a good sign. If a team is in the same range year after year where they can't make the playoffs, are on the decline, aren't drafting elite talent to make you more successful, and worse of all are trading away picks in hopes that maybe you make it in and "anything can happen"...well then it doesn't look so good.

No one is asking so I will. What's the deal Jay? Are you related to someone in management? In a relationship with someone in management or something? How can you seriously defend the way the team has been run over the past 15 years or so. As for the current management group, the team is in a worse position now than they were 7 years ago when they took over. It's hard to believe they've all of a sudden figured everything out and now know what to do, that's why so many of us are jaded.

Just explain why you have so much faith in this team and the people running it.

[Young Guns]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

https://twitter.com/user/status/1417255160166895619

What are you doing posting a rumour in the trade rumour forum? sheesh! This really takes away from all the banter.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Flames are an average at best regular season team that has gotten past round 1 once in 15 years and we are supposed to be happy about that?

Yeah, not this fan. Each to their own I guess.

Here is my take on this.

Flames fans should be frustrated with the results this team has had in the past 30 years. That is 100% a fair statement, and especially in the past 15 years going back to the last lockout.

But I think the problem becomes that people just use the past results as a way to make a big deal about something not happening they way the want it to right now, or use it to downplay any positive moves that the Flames make.

The Flames drafting success is a perfect example. The Flames drafting and prospect base continually get trashed, when in reality the team has been much better at drafting since Sutter was removed as GM.

If you look at the last 10 drafts the Flames have drafted pretty well:. From 2011 to 2020 the Flames rank the following in draft success:

NHLer's Drafted: 9 (T-1st)

NHLer Success Rate: 15.8% (2nd)

Stars Drafted: 3 (T-5th)

Star Success Rate: 5.3% (6th)

# of skaters drafted : 57 (T-24th)

So by actual drafting metrics this team has been a top 5 drafting team over the last 10 drafts, but a lot of the discourse around here is that the team sucks at drafting. They trade too many picks, and don't do enough to stockpile picks, but the actual drafting itself has been fine.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

You may have the lowest standards for success of anyone I have seen. I would think you were trolling if you were a new poster.

No, I just don't leap from ‘a little below average’ to ‘worst franchise in the history of forever, KILL IT WITH FIRE SHOOT IT INTO THE SUN OMGOMG!!!!11eleventy!’ Which is where about half the most vocal ‘fans’ on CP are now.

I can't believe anyone can actually argue that over the past 15 years this team has been anything but terrible.

I can't believe anyone can argue that the last 15 years have been all of a piece and need to be considered as a unit, or that being marginally below average makes you the worst in the world.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, I just don't leap from ‘a little below average’ to ‘worst franchise in the history of forever, KILL IT WITH FIRE SHOOT IT INTO THE SUN OMGOMG!!!!11eleventy!’ Which is where about half the most vocal ‘fans’ on CP are now.



I can't believe anyone can argue that the last 15 years have been all of a piece and need to be considered as a unit, or that being marginally below average makes you the worst in the world.

Very few people are reacting as dramatically as you are now arguing

And over the past 15 years the Flames are closer to the worst franchise in the league then average

Most unbiased analysis puts them around the 5th worth franchise over that time

[Badgers Nose]

What's frustrating is that the cap era levelled the playing field and we still can't get out of this 'average team 9/10 seasons with an occasional burst of greatness' rut.

The mediocrity was easy to understand when big teams could outspend the Flames and lure players away to more cosmopolitan cities.

IMO the problem with the Flames is they never want to admit when they are bad and that prevents them form making the hard choices. Other teams are ruthless with pending free agents and post apex players. Some teams are cynical enough to tank for a shot at great players.

Flames are not likely to change and neither will the results.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

So by actual drafting metrics this team has been a top 5 drafting team over the last 10 drafts, but a lot of the discourse around here is that the team sucks at drafting. They trade too many picks, and don't do enough to stockpile picks, but the actual drafting itself has been fine.

All the more reason to trust a rebuild.

I don't think the current core gets the Flames any further than the first round so rather than tweaking around the core, why not try something more substantial?

It's easier to be patient when we are seeing progress.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Poe969

If you are looking at a snapshot, 15th isn't bad at all. Just missed the playoffs.

BUT...when you draft at around 15 or so, you're not getting an elite prospect to help push you into the playoffs. If if the team is already on the decline and misses the playoffs it isn't a good sign.

So the Flames have been missing the playoffs year after year? News to me. When I look at the standings, I see the only time they did that was just before and during the last rebuild, two management teams ago… but what do I know?

No one is asking so I will. What's the deal Jay? Are you related to someone in management? In a relationship with someone in management or something?

Here we go with the same stupid accusation that the negative loonies always level at anyone who finds anyone positive in a situation. ‘What are you, X's mom?’ ‘Who are you sleeping with?’ etc., etc. All you do when you resort to this is make yourself look petty and ignorant.

How can you seriously defend the way the team has been run over the past 15 years or so.

Only in your imagination does ‘I'm tired of people blaming Brad Treliving for things that never even happened’ somehow twist into ‘I'm defending the way the team has been run’. You are so damned negative that you can't accept any adjective but ‘worse’ or ‘worst’ applied to the Calgary Flames. That's your problem, not mine.

As for the current management group, the team is in a worse position now than they were 7 years ago when they took over.

You'll have to spell that one out. Seven years ago, the Flames were coming off a 27th-place finish and had nothing to show for it but the 4th pick in an admittedly weak draft. Their leading scorer was Jiri freaking Hudler, a castoff from the Detroit organization. They had a few promising young players like Monahan and Gaudreau, but we all know now how those guys turned out and a lot of CP can't wait to run them out of town. What on earth did they have then that was better than now?

It's hard to believe they've all of a sudden figured everything out and now know what to do, that's why so many of us are jaded.

Just explain why you have so much faith in this team and the people running it.

I have very little faith in the team or the people running it. I have no faith at all in the people who hate it and have to keep exaggerating and making up preposterous scenarios just so they can have more things to hate. I'm tired of it and I wish it would stop.

The real situation is bad enough. Screaming about how much worse you are certain Brad ‘World's Biggest Idiot’ Treliving is inevitably going to make it does nothing but make other people miserable.

I am seriously thinking of giving up being a hockey fan altogether, because the only way I have of talking with other fans is through places like this one, and the toxicity has grown beyond belief. The naysayers are not half as sick of the Flames as I am sick of the naysayers. And I see no hope of an improvement in that, no matter what the team does.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

What's frustrating is that the cap era levelled the playing field and we still can't get out of this 'average team 9/10 seasons with an occasional burst of greatness' rut.

The mediocrity was easy to understand when big teams could outspend the Flames and lure players away to more cosmopolitan cities.

The Flames before the salary cap were not in a rut of mediocrity. They were downright bad and in danger of going out of business entirely. I know; I was one of the few who stepped forward to buy season tickets to keep them from leaving town or folding. Mediocrity is an improvement compared to what came before the cap.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I've always wondered if the millennials and Gen Zers are more likely to have a negative outlook toward the Flames than the older generations (if they haven't grown disinterested altogether)

I'm a millennial and I've never really known anything other than mediocrity. So there's no real source of optimism that I've ever perceived.
As a fan, the most captivating thing I've seen was the emergence of Jarome Iginla, since he was legitimately among the best players in the world for a while.

It also seems like many older fans just like to watch hockey for the sake of watching hockey - they don't actually have that much of a rooting interest.
My grandpa watches every game, but I don't actually think could care less about the outcome.

I'm an older millennial, but I'm still a little too young to really remember the cup win, so Iggy scoring 50 and the 03-04 run are really the only real highs I've experienced as a flames fan.
It seems like it's been a lot of lows. But never really the lowest lows that could help the team turn around.
At this point, being a flames fan is more of a habit than a passion.

[Tkachukwagon]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1417258355932897280

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