LeBrun: Flames are looking at every single scenario to try and keep Giordano

[Enoch Root]

^ that ignores the fact that Giordano also has trade value.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

^ that ignores the fact that Giordano also has trade value.

No, it doesn't, because Giordano's trade value is entirely about the one remaining year on his contract. Whether the Kraken would want to keep him or trade him, they still only have one year of the player's services to work with.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

I would retain 50% salary on Gio and Johnny. Then add Monahan and another sweetener for Eichle. Buffalo could then further retain salary to make their values maximal and move them for a treasure trove of assets to a contender in cap hell.

We need a stud center to carry this team to playoff success. Otherwise, it will be more of the same. Deluded hope, which unfortunately is not a strategy.

The whole point of acquiring Eichel is to play him with Gaudreau.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, it doesn't, because Giordano's trade value is entirely about the one remaining year on his contract. Whether the Kraken would want to keep him or trade him, they still only have one year of the player's services to work with.

That's obtuse. If you know you can move a player at the deadline for assets, he is worth (at least) those assets.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That's obtuse. If you know you can move a player at the deadline for assets, he is worth (at least) those assets.

That's not obtuse. That's already figured into the equation: ‘value of Giordano for his 38-year-old season only’. If you play him, you get one season only. If you trade him, whoever you trade him to is exchanging assets for that same one season only.

If somebody wants to acquire Giordano's services in 2022-23 and beyond, they can sign him as a UFA.

[Enoch Root]

You said this:

Originally Posted by Jay Random

One question is whether (odds of Kylington improving) x (number of years Kylington will be a useful player if he does improve) is greater or less than (value of Giordano for his 38-year-old season only).

And I am saying that is incomplete because Giordano's value, for the Kraken, also includes what they cold trade him for (i.e. assets beyond one year)

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You said this:



And I am saying that is incomplete because Giordano's value, for the Kraken, also includes what they cold trade him for (i.e. assets beyond one year)

But the team that trades for Giordano is only acquiring him for the one year, and that puts a limit on what assets they would be willing to give the Kraken in trade. It's not as if anyone is going to value him as a long-term building block and pay accordingly.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Just controlling the narrative so they can say "we tried every scenario to keep our captain"

Exactly. I wouldn't expect any less of the Flames, or most teams, to publicly say they are attempting to keep their captain or player that's spent 15+ years in the organization, who may well be departing. Behind the scenes is likely a very different reality.

Some of the melodrama in this thread is too much, from ones that I figured would be a little bit more perceptive on how this all works.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

But the team that trades for Giordano is only acquiring him for the one year, and that puts a limit on what assets they would be willing to give the Kraken in trade. It's not as if anyone is going to value him as a long-term building block and pay accordingly.

The Penguins, and likely a few others, would gladly give them a first for him as a rental.

[Vinny01]

I have no doubt Burke would give up his 1st for Gio @ 50% retained especially if Pitt could send some salary back as well

[Macho0978]

Maybe give up the asset but package lucic in the deal? If the flames made a promise to lucic maybe get creative

Lucic and a first not to take Gio

Lucic for phillips and 3rd retain 50% or remaining balance of what can be retained

Seattle gets a ton but the flames keep their team and gain cap. I personally would just let Gio go but if they are paying to keep him and don’t wanna include lucic I’d still like to buy some cap space

[browna]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Thanks that's the exact answer i was looking for.

See McAmmond, Dean, circa March 2003.
A trade made by the current "Director of Scouting" for TSN, in his last trade deadline ever as a GM...and clearly didn't know the rules.

[Icon]

^ gross. (Edit: To Macho's post)

Just let Gio go, the cap space alone is a huge win. Nevermind the fact you're not losing a more valuable asset long term.

And I'm a huge Gio fan, it's just the way it works best for the team.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Maybe give up the asset but package lucic in the deal? If the flames made a promise to lucic maybe get creative

Lucic and a first not to take Gio

Lucic for phillips and 3rd retain 50% or remaining balance of what can be retained

Seattle gets a ton but the flames keep their team and gain cap. I personally would just let Gio go but if they are paying to keep him and don’t wanna include lucic I’d still like to buy some cap space

If prices are as huge ask everyone is saying, it’s probably a first not to take Gio already.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Icon

^ gross. (Edit: To Macho's post)

Just let Gio go, the cap space alone is a huge win. Nevermind the fact you're not losing a more valuable asset long term.

And I'm a huge Gio fan, it's just the way it works best for the team.

I agree. But I don’t think they will do it. If they trade a 2nd to keep him get a first at the deadline sure it’s a plus but if we lose him for nothing and make a run at a good ufa or 2 we could come out ahead

Some want landeskog some think Hyman is ok too. Some want Hall. Might have a chance at 2 guys like this with no gio

Trade Tkachuk and take a dman back in deal. Maybe Buffalo would add risto in a Eichel deal? At this point Gio is good but replaceable with a player that makes less than he makes. IMO tanev is better and he cost 4.5 and it was labelled a bad deal.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by browna

See McAmmond, Dean, circa March 2003.

That rule no longer exists because the Waiver Draft no longer exists.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/mca...eason-1.409123

"The player technically was not eligible to return to Calgary," Bill Daly, NHL executive vice-president and chief legal officer, said in a statement Friday. "The Flames traded McAmmond to Colorado on Oct. 1, 2002, three days prior to the NHL waiver draft, and Article 13.36 of the collective bargaining agreement states explicitly that 'a player traded by a club within the four weeks prior to the waiver draft may not be re-acquired by such club within the forthcoming season.'

"After becoming aware that the transaction had been concluded in error, we consulted with the clubs involved in the trade and determined that while a reversal of the trade was not required, the player nonetheless will not participate in league play for Calgary for the balance of the season," Daly said.

The reason the rule exists is so teams don't try anything strange at the annual waiver draft, like making pre-arranged deals with teams for players they don't want to lose in the draft.

In the past, some NHL teams would trade a player they didn't want to expose in the waiver draft and then re-acquire him a few weeks later for a low draft pick. In practice, it was called "hiding" players.

The current CBA does not allow a team to reacquire a player in a retained-salary transaction within one year of that player being on the team's reserve list, or reacquire a player who they previously retained salary on within one calendar year (with the exception of any player whose retained contract is no longer in force -- so the Flames could sign Rittich as a UFA for example). Otherwise, there is nothing in the current CBA preventing a team from reacquiring a player.



That said, there may be rules for the expansion draft specifically that would forbid Seattle from trading a player back to his original team, but in the CBA, it is allowed as long there is no salary retention involved.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

But the team that trades for Giordano is only acquiring him for the one year, and that puts a limit on what assets they would be willing to give the Kraken in trade. It's not as if anyone is going to value him as a long-term building block and pay accordingly.

Don't move the goalposts - I never said anyone would value him as a long-term asset. I said his value includes his trade value, which would, almost certainly, generate longer term assets.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

The Penguins, and likely a few others, would gladly give them a first for him as a rental.

If so, then that is the value of one year of Giordano, which I was already taking into account. Geez.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Don't move the goalposts - I never said anyone would value him as a long-term asset. I said his value includes his trade value, which would, almost certainly, generate longer term assets.

I'm not moving the goalposts. I said that his trade value is based on the value of him playing for whatever team for one year – either Calgary, or Seattle, or whoever he gets traded to. Nobody is getting more than one year of Giordano, and nobody is paying for more than one year of Giordano in a trade.

And you have the nerve to call me obtuse!

[skipbittman]

If Gio wants to stay in Calgary, buy him our ala Stone. Sign him to 2.25 for this year and he's not out any money. Cap hit from buyout + new contract = 4.5. Both the team and the player benefit from the 2.25 saved in cap space. Gio's not out any money and he's still a free agent next year. The 2.25 cap hit next year will make it more difficult to sign Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Mangiapane etc. If TB didn't cheat in the post season and TO didn't cheat by waiting to sign Nylander until the season was under way then why not? Maybe he hangs up the phone on Tre...