LeBrun: Flames are looking at every single scenario to try and keep Giordano

[3rd Degree]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Yup I heard Pat setting the table for very little change in terms of the core or high end part of the roster.

I know he claimed this was just his opinion and not inside info but I was worried when I heard that. I am not a Treliving hater but I am getting close to be joining the many who want to fire him.

This roster needs a shakeup

I would retain 50% salary on Gio and Johnny. Then add Monahan and another sweetener for Eichle. Buffalo could then further retain salary to make their values maximal and move them for a treasure trove of assets to a contender in cap hell.

We need a stud center to carry this team to playoff success. Otherwise, it will be more of the same. Deluded hope, which unfortunately is not a strategy.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

I would retain 50% salary on Gio and Johnny. Then add Monahan and another sweetener for Eichle. Buffalo could then further retain salary to make their values maximal and move them for a treasure trove of assets to a contender in cap hell.

We need a stud center to carry this team to playoff success. Otherwise, it will be more of the same. Deluded hope, which unfortunately is not a strategy.

I have all but given up on Eichel. The Sabres want rebuilding pieces that the Flames simply don’t have. The only slight chance to me is a 3 way deal where Tkachuk ends up in a long term landing spot and the futures there are rerouted to Buffalo and the Flames are also kicking in some futures that go to Buffalo. Monahan and a sweetener simply isn’t even in the realm of possibility to land Eichel

In your scenario I know Tkachuk is retained to play with Eichel but I don’t see how it can happen so really at that point if we can land Eichel then we need to keep Johnny.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Half the players they take are going to be flipped as assets. One year of a top-four D plus the deadline return of at least a 2nd is good value. The Kracken will have more than enough Kylingtons on their roster.

I don't think you can have enough 20-24 year old cap controlled players with untapped potential. Especially when you're starting from zero as an expansion team. This worked out very well for the Golden Knights, as they found some gems buried in other teams' depth charts.

A lot of people here thing Kylington is borderline worthless. That's simply ridiculous. Not saying he's the next Shea Theodore, but if I'm the Kraken I definitely consider picking him up.

There will be plenty of big name, big cap type players on the decline available that could be flipped. Given the expansion draft rules, the Kraken won't be able to take and flip them all. So it all comes down to where the Kraken see Giordano.

[GioforPM]

I agree on Kylington. He’d be a very interesting option for Seattle. High ceiling and no risk.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I don't think you can have enough 20-24 year old cap controlled players with untapped potential. Especially when you're starting from zero as an expansion team. This worked out very well for the Golden Knights, as they found some gems buried in other teams' depth charts.

A lot of people here thing Kylington is borderline worthless. That's simply ridiculous. Not saying he's the next Shea Theodore, but if I'm the Kraken I definitely consider picking him up.

There will be plenty of big name, big cap type players on the decline available that could be flipped. Given the expansion draft rules, the Kraken won't be able to take and flip them all. So it all comes down to where the Kraken see Giordano.

I am one of those people that thinks that Kylington is borderline worthless. Not as a player, but as an asset. The reason is that he has to go through waivers. If you're Seattle and you believe he can turn into something, he needs to be one of your top 6 D. Otherwise he wouldn't have a chance to develop into anything. That is also the reason he passed through waivers without being claimed at the beginning of last season.

[Firebot]

Seattle isn't picking Kylington...

He barely even makes the Flames roster.

Seattle wants an asset, not a project. Kylington is a middling fringe NHLer nearing his prime already that gets passed over by Michael Stone.

He played 8 games this year...

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Seattle isn't picking Kylington...

He barely even makes the Flames roster.

Seattle wants potential, or assets. Kylington is a middling fringe NHLer nearing his prime already that gets passed over by Michael Stone.

He played 8 games this year...

That's because the Flames were bad at managing their roster this past year.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I don't think Kylington is useless, but go through the mock draft process. You can easily find 6+ dmen with better past results and/or room for growth.

[Pellanor]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Seattle isn't picking Kylington...

He barely even makes the Flames roster.

Seattle wants an asset, not a project. Kylington is a middling fringe NHLer nearing his prime already that gets passed over by Michael Stone.

He played 8 games this year...

They're not just drafting an NHL roster. They need a farm team too, and players who can clear waivers.

[devo22]

clearing 6.75m in cap space goes from exciting to horrifying when you read that we're in the Hyman sweepstakes. I'm honestly scared of what might happen this offseason, and I'm not even necessarily in the "fire BT now!!!" group.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Honestly it would be nice if people just didn't massively over react. Lining up to fire someone for something that hasn't even happened doesn't do a whole lot to the discussion of whether or not something should happen.

Of course it would be great if people didn’t overreact

I’d honestly suggest re reading this thread with an eye for that particular lineup, and for posts contributing to escalation

[SebC]

Some of the weirdest takes (but not the absolute weirdest) are that the Flames should make a trade preemptively. Player value for anyone who is protection eligible is depressed until after the expansion draft, because the buyer then loses someone else to Seattle. Selling now is selling low.

The Flames are bargaining to essentially rent Gio from ourselves. Would we do that? Well, that would depend on how the season goes. Ideally, we'll be in position to do so. We'll be more likely to be in that position if we keep him.

If the Flames pay Seattle trade deadline value minus the value of the replacement pick, Seattle gets what they'd end up with picking and flipping Giordano. And the Flames get to defer the decision on whether they self-rent Gio to the TDL. There's a deal to be made here if both parties are reasonable.

The problem is that Seattle doesn't lose anything by failing to make the deal, so they are free to try to get an unfair deal. Treeliving needs to stand firm with his offer, and in the end, if we're dealing with an unreasonable party, it sucks, but there's nothing to be done other than to move on.

[Moneyhands23]

This seems to be more likely

https://flamesnation.ca/2021/07/15/s...-in-expansion/

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

I would retain 50% salary on Gio and Johnny. Then add Monahan and another sweetener for Eichle. Buffalo could then further retain salary to make their values maximal and move them for a treasure trove of assets to a contender in cap hell.

We need a stud center to carry this team to playoff success. Otherwise, it will be more of the same. Deluded hope, which unfortunately is not a strategy.

So you are proposing Gio+Johnny at 50% retained, + Monahan+ another sweetener for Eichel. Congrats, you just made the Flames worse than Buffalo. Actually that makes them worse than everybody.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Of course it would be great if people didn’t overreact

I’d honestly suggest re reading this thread with an eye for that particular lineup, and for posts contributing to escalation

No thanks!

Not that much time on my hands.

You could copy and paste it into a neat summary for me though if you want!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I wonder what the Venn diagram looks like of the people that get incensed that BT is "in" on almost all trade talk, and yet almost never lands the trade, and those that are incensed that BT is "in" on any move to try and protect Gio, and yet may not actually land anything.

A perfect circle?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The added difficulty is they need to find a team on his list, has the cap space, and has a protection slot.

And that wants a 38 year old player

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So you are proposing Gio+Johnny at 50% retained, + Monahan+ another sweetener for Eichel. Congrats, you just made the Flames worse than Buffalo. Actually that makes them worse than everybody.

Does Eichel just play by himself?

[CalgaryFan1988]

If Seattle wants Kylington, they will most likely have a crack at him via waivers this season. Not sure why they would waste a pick on him vs Giordano.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

If Seattle wants Kylington, they will most likely have a crack at him via waivers this season. Not sure why they would waste a pick on him vs Giordano.

The upside of taking Kylington is that he is still young and presumably improving. If he does improve, he won't be hitting waivers anymore, so you may only get this one chance to acquire him for nothing.

(If he does hit waivers again, well, the Kraken will just have taken 30 other players in the expansion draft and won't have a roster spot to keep him; so they would just have to put him right back on waivers again, and what's the use of that?)

The downside of taking Giordano is that he is only under contract for one more year, after which he will be a UFA if he even continues playing.

One question is whether (odds of Kylington improving) x (number of years Kylington will be a useful player if he does improve) is greater or less than (value of Giordano for his 38-year-old season only). Another question is whether the money the Kraken would save by drafting Kylington instead of Giordano would be better spent on something else. I don't think the answers to those two questions are necessarily obvious.