[PST] Stanley Cup Final: Montreal Canadiens vs. Tampa Bay Lightning---Bolts win the Cup 4-1

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I was just gonna say this. Remember Montreal was struggling to get Caufield into the lineup because they were over the cap? They had a couple convenient absences too. Let's not forget they clinched the playoffs because they lost a close one to the Oilers where Koskinen gave them a gift.

They certainly benefited from odd NHL rules too

Agreed that many teams have taken advantage of this. Tampa took it to an extreme with the sheer amount that they went over the cap. I think no team should be allowed to go over the cap at all. The team that is on the ice for any game (regular season or playoffs) should be cap compliant. I’m sure there are lots more rule adjustments that would need to be made to get the details right but this level of cap circumvention is ridiculous and needs to stop.


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[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Chirping the fans was a ###### bag move, but nothing the league needs to intervene on.

Next year he will get booed everytime he touches the puck and they will cheer every time he gets hit. Problem solved.

Not sure why he went there, but he did. Welcome to a new rivalry.

Leagues always do well when there a villains and drama.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Meh, fans have no issue gathering their keyboard army online and trashing a player themselves in droves. It's give 'n' take. Dish it out, be prepared to receive it.

And last time I checked, the owners in TB are paying his salary. No 'fan' pays any player's salary. Owners do.

Never said fans were the ones paying their salary. I said they’re the reason they make the money they make.

Without the fans this whole operation falls apart. Criticizing them for being happy their team won a game just comes off as sour grapes, especially considering the Habs have a much larger and more passionate fan base than the Lightning do.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Never said fans were the ones paying their salary. I said they’re the reason they make the money they make.

Without the fans this whole operation falls apart. Criticizing them for being happy their team won a game just comes off as sour grapes, especially considering the Habs have a much larger and more passionate fan base than the Lightning do.

If Canadiens fans want to show how thin skinned they are, they can choose to be highly offended by Kucherov's comments. Doesnt effect me as a Flames fan at all, it was high comedy.

[DeluxeMoustache]

That’s silly. Firstly, I am not a Habs fan, nor am I thin skinned, nor offended.

But I do think Kucherov is a d-bag, and the generations who raised me taught me how to deal with success properly. Once you have won, it’s done. You don’t disrespect and taunt the unsuccessful.

He is in a position of a role model and kids look up to these guys. Given the choice to conduct oneself with some dignity, or go on what appears as a shirtless coke addled rant, I’d choose differently than him

*sniff*

And I personally don’t think that being an a-hole is the ideal antidote to the boring cliche interviews. Hockey isn’t pro wrestling. It’s possible to be a good interview without just being a dick. That’s what people should want

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Ah yes the same classy Habs fans calling and threatening schiefeles family after his hit in game 1.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Ah yes the same classy Habs fans calling and threatening schiefeles family after his hit in game 1.

That’s the ones. The ones who boo ex-Habs every time they touch the puck.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

That’s silly. Firstly, I am not a Habs fan, nor am I thin skinned, nor offended.

But I do think Kucherov is a d-bag, and the generations who raised me taught me how to deal with success properly. Once you have won, it’s done. You don’t disrespect and taunt the unsuccessful.

He is in a position of a role model and kids look up to these guys. Given the choice to conduct oneself with some dignity, or go on what appears as a shirtless coke addled rant, I’d choose differently than him

*sniff*

And I personally don’t think that being an a-hole is the ideal antidote to the boring cliche interviews. Hockey isn’t pro wrestling. It’s possible to be a good interview without just being a dick. That’s what people should want

I like that he's being a dick, why does he have to be nice, it's the parents job to monitor who their kids look up to as role models. It was long and hard fought playoff season, and two cup runs in short order. He's getting insults hurled at him and criticized for the handling of his injury. And Montreal media has been taking shots at him too. If he wants to call Vasilevsky not winning the Vezina bull####, or talk about the Montreal fans then that's his choice.

He's probably frustrated too because honestly he was probably robbed of two Conn Smythe trophies. He could have called out media for that when the only guys with better playoff production than him over two cup runs are named Gretzky and Lemieux and he still didn't get a Conn Smythe.

If it's not a Canadian market that he's talking about then nobody even blinks twice about it, but how dare this Russian call out canadian hockey fans.

And to insinuate it's a coke addled rant is completely unfair. Sure he was drunk but there was no indication he was on coke.

Maybe Montreal fans should be called out. Haven't Montreal Riot squad been deployed after each game since like the second round.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The silver lining is now every GM in the league can point to TB when they ask players to take 1 or 2 M off their AAV as a means to build a competitive team. They don't have a single player getting paid over 10M.

There are only 13 players with 10M AAVs. The Leafs have 3; CHI and LAK have 2 each.

TBL still has 3 of the 27 highest paid players in the league. And Hedman is 42nd.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

There are only 13 players with 10M AAVs. The Leafs have 3; CHI and LAK have 2 each.

TBL still has 3 of the 27 highest paid players in the league. And Hedman is 42nd.

Think the points still stands though.

Stamkos, Kucherov, and Hedman all could have received more money on the open market, and all took less than market value to stay in Tampa.

Vasilevskiy is probably the only one that took full market value, and we will see what happens if Point re-signs this offseason.

[dino7c]

Kucherov broke his ribs in game 6 Vs. the Islanders...pretty impressive performance over the next 6 games

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Clearly"? Clearly to whom? You? Based on what, exactly? What qualifies you or any other fan to determine when a player should be clear to play from this distance?


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Common sense?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And to insinuate it's a coke addled rant is completely unfair. Sure he was drunk but there was no indication he was on coke.

Haha, you didn’t notice an unusual amount of sniffing?

You’re right, probably the same sweater allergy that took out Hossa, wonder if it keeps him out next year for the regular season too

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Ah yes the same classy Habs fans calling and threatening schiefeles family after his hit in game 1.

One is the actions of a player and role model and the other is actions from idiot fans, which every team has. You don't see the difference?

I wanted Montreal to lose and glad they did, but I found it was in poor taste.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes. People also understand he was skating well two months before the playoffs began and clearly could have returned before the regular season ended. It was a smart play on the organizations part but they clearly took advantage of the system.

Seguin and Kucherov both played in the finals last year, both suffered torn labrums.

Seguin had the surgery for his torn labrum on November 2nd. Started skating with teammates April 15th, and Seguin returned May 3rd. He only played in 3 games.

So that was 6 months from surgery date to his first game back.

Kucherov had his torn labrum repaired on December 28th, started skating with the team on April 16th, and he returned in the playoffs on May 16th.

So that's actually a faster recover than Seguin when looking from time of surgery to playing games.

So I guess there are two questions there. Why did it take to December for Kucherov's surgery (sounds like they hoped they could rehab it and it failed), and why did it take a month from skating with the team for him to return to the lineup.

I guess you could argue that Kucherov could have returned about two weeks earlier, but the funny thing is I remember they could have fit him on the roster then if they wanted to since they had Stamkos on LTIR and Hedman was injured at the end of the season too. So honestly I would have found it shadier if somehow they put those two on LTIR and suddenly Kucherov came back to get some game action to shake off the rust before the playoffs.

Was it a bit sneaky from Tampa Bay? For sure. Did they time it perfectly so Kucherov was just ready to return for the playoffs? 100% But I honestly don't think a healthy Kucherov was sitting out (they had the LTIR room to play him with Stamkos and Hedman injured), I think they just strategically timed his rehab so he was ready for the playoffs. Smart move by them.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

That’s silly. Firstly, I am not a Habs fan, nor am I thin skinned, nor offended.

But I do think Kucherov is a d-bag, and the generations who raised me taught me how to deal with success properly. Once you have won, it’s done. You don’t disrespect and taunt the unsuccessful.

He is in a position of a role model and kids look up to these guys. Given the choice to conduct oneself with some dignity, or go on what appears as a shirtless coke addled rant, I’d choose differently than him

*sniff*

And I personally don’t think that being an a-hole is the ideal antidote to the boring cliche interviews. Hockey isn’t pro wrestling. It’s possible to be a good interview without just being a dick. That’s what people should want

I assume you don't follow other professional sports like the NBA and NFL. Otherwise I just don't understand why you are so salty over this. It was one of the great cup winning moments IMO. It's candid and real. Who cares if he's being classy as that's just boring cliché. Athletes are still people at the end of the day and there are plenty of other good role model players for kids to look up to and it's not like our very own Matthew Tkachuk is a great role model for kids.

[FlamesAddiction]

I guess I just don't see it as real or candid. He just seems like a sloppy mess to me. I don't really care. It was funny, and that to me, is the most important thing.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Haha, you didn’t notice an unusual amount of sniffing?

You’re right, probably the same sweater allergy that took out Hossa, wonder if it keeps him out next year for the regular season too

He was just water boarded with booze after playing a grueling game. All the players were doing a lot of sniffing. You talk about class and then are calling a guy a drug addict (which really shouldn't be joked about anyway) just because you are upset he won a game.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Seguin and Kucherov both played in the finals last year, both suffered torn labrums.

Seguin had the surgery for his torn labrum on November 2nd. Started skating with teammates April 15th, and Seguin returned May 3rd. He only played in 3 games.

So that was 6 months from surgery date to his first game back.

Kucherov had his torn labrum repaired on December 28th, started skating with the team on April 16th, and he returned in the playoffs on May 16th.

So that's actually a faster recover than Seguin when looking from time of surgery to playing games.

So I guess there are two questions there. Why did it take to December for Kucherov's surgery (sounds like they hoped they could rehab it and it failed), and why did it take a month from skating with the team for him to return to the lineup.

I guess you could argue that Kucherov could have returned about two weeks earlier, but the funny thing is I remember they could have fit him on the roster then if they wanted to since they had Stamkos on LTIR and Hedman was injured at the end of the season too. So honestly I would have found it shadier if somehow they put those two on LTIR and suddenly Kucherov came back to get some game action to shake off the rust before the playoffs.

Was it a bit sneaky from Tampa Bay? For sure. Did they time it perfectly so Kucherov was just ready to return for the playoffs? 100% But I honestly don't think a healthy Kucherov was sitting out (they had the LTIR room to play him with Stamkos and Hedman injured), I think they just strategically timed his rehab so he was ready for the playoffs. Smart move by them.

People can pat them on the back for managing the cap but no matter what way you look at it… they built a team that, once the playoffs started, was way over the cap. That’s the issue. I know it’s within the rules as far as what anyone can prove in terms of the health of Kucherov. The rules themselves need to be adjusted because this can start to become a whole team design that gets repeated year after year and can get way out of hand for teams that can afford it. It is cap circumvention at its core.

I’ve used Eichel as an example for this coming year. Hypothetically, a team could trade for him, have him get the surgery at the exact right time for him to miss the regular season, load up the team with the roster you need to make the playoffs and be right at the cap even with him on LTIR, activate him on the first day of playoffs, and be 10 million over the cap.

Imagine if teams like Toronto, Boston, Tampa Bay, or Vegas keep doing this? These are teams that are locks to make playoffs every year just as they are and are right up against the cap. Imagine if they also got eichel without having to give up much at all from their roster (crazy example: trades Buffalo 4 first round picks plus their top 2 prospects). Now the team has a superstar in reserve for their playoff run. Next year… good chance one of their other top players might need a surgery. Have him get the surgery to time out when playoffs start. Year after year, teams like this could use LTIR and coordinate their player injury recoveries to have a powerhouse playoff team that’s way over the salary cap. Not to mention the random use of “player has developed allergy to equipment” that can be used on players to put them on LTIR if you don’t have a surgery-related excuse.

The loophole needs to be closed.


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[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by stemit14

The loophole needs to be closed.

I actually agree but I'm not going to discount Tampa's win or give them #### for taking advantage of it. It was smart of them.

Plus in 2015 Tampa Bay was the only NHL team that voted to close this loop hole. So if anything blame the 29 other NHL teams at that time that didn't want to close this gap because they invited Tampa to do this.