Rumor: Management change

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except I don't have much doubt about Dube and Valimaki having NHL careers. But the jury is in on all the players I mentioned.

Re Valimaki - Due to pedigree? Maybe. If he has a "Cody Ceci" career is that successful pick though? What if Liljegren has a much better career being taken one spot later?

Fox wasn't a good draft pick because they didn't sign him? Just used him in a successful trade? Please. We were talking about talent evaluation at the draft IMO. .

By pure "talent evaluation", you can give Feaster credit for Kucherov since he was clearly identified as a guy they wanted.

And Fox was a throw-in in that trade. You're making it sound as if the Hurricanes managed to sign him.

Fox has accomplished nothing for the Flames. And the guy who found him was already in the organization when Feaster was here. In fact, Jim Cummins who gets credited for Fox was the same guy who found Gaudreau.

Crediting Treliving for Fox is silly.

[1_Flames_Fan]

I've been saying Futa for a while now. I think he could be the right guy to rebuild the team into a contender. I hope it happens. Tre has had more than enough time, I think he's a great dude but this is a results oriented business.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Re Valimaki - Due to pedigree? Maybe. If he has a "Cody Ceci" career is that successful pick though? What if Liljegren has a much better career being taken one spot later?



By pure "talent evaluation", you can give Feaster credit for Kucherov since he was clearly identified as a guy they wanted.

And Fox was a throw-in in that trade. You're making it sound as if the Hurricanes managed to sign him.

Fox has accomplished nothing for the Flames. And the guy who found him was already in the organization when Feaster was here. In fact, Jim Cummins who gets credited for Fox was the same guy who found Gaudreau.

Crediting Treliving for Fox is silly.

Valimaki based on what I can see out of him. Rumours of him busting are greatly exaggerated.

As for Fox, yes, Treliving (or more fairly his team) identified and drafted Fox. So credit. He was part of the trade - how much he was a "throw-in" you don't know, nor do I. I'm sure it wasn't voluntary on Treliving's part. And did Carolina sign him? No. Did they get something for him? yes.

Not crediting Treliving and his scouts for drafting Fox is silly.

ETA: In a do over, I'd rather they drafted Fox than anyone else who went in the second round, even knowing he wouldn't sign and would be used in a trade. No one else from round 2 has even made the NHL on a full time basis and would have just been a waste of time and energy for the farm team.

[WCW Nitro]

My choice would be Jim Rutherford.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

And Fox was a throw-in in that trade. You're making it sound as if the Hurricanes managed to sign him.

Since Carolina traded him to the Rangers for a 2nd and 3rd round pick, its clear he had real value. He was far from a 'throw-in".

[flames_fan_down_under]

Man imagine being able to pick up Adam Fox for two second rounders a 2nd and a 3rd and then getting fired. ** edit

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I know I'm in the minority, but I think it will be a mistake to let Treliving go now

I know right? He's got us soooo close! /s

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I know right? He's got us soooo close! /s

activestick must be happy with mediocrity

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Treliving really hasn't missed on a first or second rounder yet (if 2014 doesn't count). Which, I suppose, makes not having those picks in 2018 sting a bit more.

Imagine having a GM who is good at drafting, bad at trading, but uses a bunch of his high draft picks to make bad trades. That is a special kind of hell that could only befall Flames fans.

[Geeoff]

monkey's paw curls: Tree to PoHO, Conny to GM

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Addressing the questions from the other posters... I believe that building teams takes longer than 7 years, especially a team in the state the Flames were in when he took over in 2014. Treliving has made mistakes, but when I look at all of his moves in totality, I see more in the 'Good Move' column than the bad. For me, obviously, James Neal sucks and didn't work out at all, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who predicted what happened would happen when he was first signed that day. I bring this transaction up because I like that Treliving works fairly aggressively to address holes he perceives. And related to this, he had no issue moving Neal out when it was clear he sucks, which is a quality that many people don't have, as it amounts to admitting a mistake. This is a good and in my opinion rare quality to find in executives in all lines of work. It takes time (longer than 7 years) for drafting and culture change to make an impact, in my opinion.

I’d agree with you on drafting. But you can change culture quickly with the right leadership changes.

By that I mean head coach and 2 or 3 core players. Weed the rest out if they don’t fall in line.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think Treliving gave it a good shot but the team he built seems to be approaching an expiration date. I personally don’t think we got close enough to give him another go at it.

I think he will go down in history as being OK, but we should be shooting higher.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I know I'm in the minority, but I think it will be a mistake to let Treliving go now

Well, lets expand on this because I think I've mentioned it a few times.

Unfortunately....I agree with you.

This team in its current iteration is going nowhere.

Treliving built a decent, well managed middle-of-the-pack team. He created a well cost-controlled base that could potentially have some upside.

Thats his strength. He drafts and negotiates contracts well and he appears to be well respected by both players and management.

He is 'Steady Eddy.'

Unfortunately 'Steady Eddy' never wins anything.

Treliving did very well at creating a decent mid-level roster. Granted, being in the middle in the NHL is akin to floating on the River Styx on an inner-tube.

Sure, you're not in Hell, but you're not going anywhere either.

If we're going to re-do this roster then by all means keep Treliving....right up until its time to really compete, and then fire him and find someone to take you over the top.

It just really depends on where the organization sees the future of this roster.

[ResAlien]

The argument for keeping him is that mediocrity is both his ceiling and floor so let’s stick with it? Yeah no.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

The argument for keeping him is that mediocrity is both his ceiling and floor so let’s stick with it? Yeah no.

Yeah, essentially it comes down to expectations.
People saying he has done more good than bad, are probably right; but is a C+ job good enough?

There's no right or wrong answer. Some posters accept C+ and others want someone who can do an A or A+ job.

IMO, it's a pretty amazing job to have if the bar is set at do more good than bad.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

And Fox was a throw-in in that trade. .

A throw in how? Please provide specific information about how you know this.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well, lets expand on this because I think I've mentioned it a few times.

Unfortunately....I agree with you.

This team in its current iteration is going nowhere.

Treliving built a decent, well managed middle-of-the-pack team. He created a well cost-controlled base that could potentially have some upside.

Thats his strength. He drafts and negotiates contracts well and he appears to be well respected by both players and management.

He is 'Steady Eddy.'

Unfortunately 'Steady Eddy' never wins anything.

Treliving did very well at creating a decent mid-level roster. Granted, being in the middle in the NHL is akin to floating on the River Styx on an inner-tube.

Sure, you're not in Hell, but you're not going anywhere either.

If we're going to re-do this roster then by all means keep Treliving....right up until its time to really compete, and then fire him and find someone to take you over the top.

It just really depends on where the organization sees the future of this roster.

From an ownership perspective "steady as she goes" is quite a common mantra. It's not one for "winning" anything (whether in Oil, Hockey or Cribbage) but one doesn't "lose" a tonne either. Merely staying afloat, keeping the cash rolling in. N'est-ce pas?

To win takes some degree of risk, and a risk-averse organization, which is what the Flames appear to be, isn't going far.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by redmile04

But why though? last 6 seasons- 3 first round exists, 3 missed playoffs, traded first round picks, spent to the cap each, countless coaches fired... why would it be a mistake to let go of someone with that track record?

1) It’s a job that takes years to learn.

2) Some of us think the impatience that plagues this franchise comes from ownership.

3) A GM should get more than one shot at building a roster.

[Ped]

For those saying Treliving needs more time to learn because this isn't an easy job...


All that's true, but let's remember the guy was an assistant GM and ran an AHL team for 11 years. It's not like he came into this job with no knowledge of how to do anything.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

And Fox was a throw-in in that trade. You're making it sound as if the Hurricanes managed to sign him.
.

Traded by the Carolina Hurricanes to the New York Rangers for 2nd round draft pick in 2019 and 3rd round draft pick in 2020 .

####…. Pretty good haul for a “throw in”.

If anyone was the throw in it was Ferland.