[News] Calgary Flames Garbage Bag Day Media Availability 10AM

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by krynski

Is this sellers remorse?

I won't argue that Hamilton and Fox are very good defensemen, but Hanifin + Lindholm > Hamilton. Fox had no value with us because he was NEVER going to sign here.

Bennett truly did not bring very much value here, and he needed a change of scenery. It is what it is. He played over 400 games here at 0.35 ppg. All of a sudden he is 1.5 ppg. Fact is that he did not contribute that HERE.

The canes turned their franchise around after the trade so I don’t know if Hamilton wouldn’t have contributed more than lindholm and Hanifin. With all due respect we didn’t win a real playoff round with them yet.

Fox didn’t want to play here but that doesn’t mean he had no trade value
Somebody needs to investigate why Bennett can play like a top center but not here

Anyway, these are actually good things that Treliving did…that’s the problem

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So much emotion on the Gaudreau topic.

Two things can be correct ...

1) He wants to stay
2) But only at a certain price

It's silly to be upset with anyone who either a) thinks the term and dollars could be too much or b) want to wait to see what they are before they decide they want the player signed.

what about the people who said the league had 'figured him out' after the performances he put up after being put with lindholm and tkachuk? what about those geniuses?

[Skaloper]

Originally Posted by Domoic

Me too.

End of season observations:

- Dougie Hamilton is a better defenseman than every single Flame
- Adam Fox is a better defenseman than every single Flame
- Sam Bennett is a better power forward than every single Flame
- Mike Smith outplayed Flames' goalies and is the #1 starter for a playoff team
- Cam Talbot outplayed Flames' goalies and is the #1 starter for a playoff team

Tre had all of these players and now has none of them.

(And I realize there are circumstances with each)

Just sayin...

- Dougie was part of a trade to address upgrading our offence. I'd much rather have Lindholm at this point.
- We did the best we could with Fox with what was presented to us. The Loop-hole shouldn't exist but it does and nothing the Flames can do about that.
- We can go on and on about Bennett but we couldn't give him a situation where he could excel and allow him to play his style at C in a top 6 role.
- Markstrom going forward is a much better position to be in than Smith/Talbot. He was a bit off this season I believe from injury mid-season.

On to next year! Let's hope for a bit of a shake-up in the roster.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by CGY12

That Lindy quote is shocking. I didn't see his part of the presser and might not know the full context but that kind of attitude or belief is exactly what needs to be shipped out of the org. Good player but I'm not sold on him.

You have no context. How do you know he wasn't talking about how difficult it would be to live an entire season in pandemic conditions? I think you are jumping to a conclusion that isn't necessarily there.

[Classic_Sniper]

I think people pay way too much attention to what players say. It’a what the players do on the ice that matters. I don’t care if Lindholm says he thought it’d be easier, that’s his opinion. But when he’s on the ice, he helps this team win battles, win shifts and win games. This whole hating to lose culture and bad locker room stuff and other BS like this is just so trivial.

Winning hockey games isn’t about who hates to lose the most, it’s about who can outscore the other team in any given moment. This team has one major problem, goal scoring and they just need to find more speed, skill and ability, it’s that simple.

[FlamesAddiction]

If JG is willing to sign an extension at market value, then great. Keep him.

Determining that market value isn't going to be easy though. If his best is behind him, you have to be careful over paying for him.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Reaper

You have no context. How do you know he wasn't talking about how difficult it would be to live an entire season in pandemic conditions? I think you are jumping to a conclusion that isn't necessarily there.

And I acknowledged that I missed the presser and might not have full context. My opinion doesn't change IF he was referring to his and or the teams mindset on the season. If it was related to covid then obviously thats completely different but I highly doubt the Flames tsn beat reporter would be posting that quote on twitter if it was related to covid.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

On Johnny
- I'm happy he has verbalized he wants to stay. Keep at this point is to keep all options open and make the best decision
- I don't know how anyone would expect to say anything different. Even a "no comment" would have been interpreted as him not wanting to stay. There was pretty much one answer the could have given and he did
- Key is what the term and $ value is. I've always said it wasn't about him not wanting to stay alone, it was about the deal itself and what you can get in return.

And that's the other thing. This team needs to make changes. Monahan is off the table more than likely. So if you want to make a core change Johnny is one of a couple that could bring back something of real value.

This is the biggest decision of BT's tenure (assuming he's staying). It has to be the right call.

Thing is, he has to want to stay before re-signing him is even on the table. The team has to want him back too.

I personally don't believe that Gaudreau's answer is 100% lip service. He went further than he needed to in his media comments so I do believe there is genuine interest in staying.

Of course the price needs to be right. That is true of every single player that is out of their ELC.

If Tkachuk is making it seem like he wants out, which I also believe is likely the case, what are you going to do? Are you going to build around a guy who doesn't want to be here and may not be particularly popular with his teammates. You going to deal both of them?

It's fascinating but I would say that compared to six months ago, the odds of Gaudreau returning next year have improved and the odds of Tkachuk playing elsewhere have improved too.

And I don't think a Monahan trade is off the table.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The canes turned their franchise around after the trade so I don’t know if Hamilton wouldn’t have contributed more than lindholm and Hanifin. With all due respect we didn’t win a real playoff round with them yet.

Fox didn’t want to play here but that doesn’t mean he had no trade value
Somebody needs to investigate why Bennett can play like a top center but not here

Anyway, these are actually good things that Treliving did…that’s the problem

Hamilton wanted out and was supposedly an issue in the locker room.

In hindsight, was Hamilton the issue or the guys who stayed behind?

One guy is a key part of a winning organization. The guys who stayed?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

what about the people who said the league had 'figured him out' after the performances he put up after being put with lindholm and tkachuk? what about those geniuses?

And why is that not a valid opinion to have?
Geez louise we need to stop attacking each other just because of different opinions.
Despite a strong end to the season, largely in meaningless games, I don't think Johnny is as effective or dangerous as he was before.
But I think he has become MORE effective than where he bottomed out in part because he did start to adjust, including shooting more.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

what about the people who said the league had 'figured him out' after the performances he put up after being put with lindholm and tkachuk? what about those geniuses?

Those people should watch a new sport. It was so obvious to me that Gaudreau just needed a change of linemates. I waited patiently until that day came and wasn’t surprised by the results. You don’t just lose it over night.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It's fascinating but I would say that compared to six months ago, the odds of Gaudreau returning next year have improved and the odds of Tkachuk playing elsewhere have improved too.

.

I agree with this.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Those people should watch a new sport. It was so obvious to me that Gaudreau just needed a change of linemates. I waited patiently until that day came and wasn’t surprised by the results. You don’t just lose it over night.

How does stuff like this help discussion on this site?
"Watch a new sport"?

Eff that. I love hockey and I'm allowed to have opinions about it.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Lindholm is a good player but he isn't exactly known to elevate his game down the stretch or in the playoffs. Not going to get into a debate about him giving 100%, but that attitude about things being easy is literally the worst type of attitude a player or team can have and unfortunately I think a lot of our main core probably thinks the same.

He also doesn't go missing for long stretches.

[Strange Brew]

Gaudreau did have a pretty good season IMO and I'm intrigued to see how he would continue to play under Sutter.

The single biggest issue with him though, as with many others on the club, was their ability to deliver when games became more difficult. We have zero answers to that question.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And why is that not a valid opinion to have?
Geez louise we need to stop attacking each other just because of different opinions.
Despite a strong end to the season, largely in meaningless games, I don't think Johnny is as effective or dangerous as he was before.
But I think he has become MORE effective than where he bottomed out in part because he did start to adjust, including shooting more.

What exactly makes him less effective or dangerous than before? I just don’t understand this line of thinking? Like ok, the stats over the last couple seasons may show that, but then how does that explain what Sam Bennett is doing? Johnny Gaudreau in my opinion, experienced his own “Sam Bennett” awakening when he found himself with new linemates.

Good players like to play with good players and when wingers like Gaudreau aren’t being double and triple teamed, it’s pretty amazing how much easier it is to play the game. My personal belief is that Gaudreau is still as good as he’s ever been, because it’s not so much his physical gifts that make him elite, it’s his mind. His instincts and hockey IQ is off the charts and you don’t lose this at the age of 27. He still has plenty of years left as an elite player.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

what about the people who said the league had 'figured him out' after the performances he put up after being put with lindholm and tkachuk? what about those geniuses?

TBF, he hasn't played "the league" since then. He's played Ottawa, Vancouver, Edmonton and Montreal. Toronto maybe once? Winnipeg once (they lost 4-0). All of the Vancouver games were in garbage time.

In the 5 crunch games against the Habs, Johnny had 2 goals and 3 assists ES - so really good production, ended up +2. But in the last game against them, he was under water - the Habs played a lot tighter. The last 3 games when the Flames were mathematically in, Gaudreau, Lindholm and Tkachuk were bad against Edmonton and Winnipeg and good (like the rest of the team) against Ottawa (the 6-1 rout).

None of the teams they played are particularly hard or aggressive checkers. None are that great at defensive play. So the line was very good against what I consider a B field over 12 games prior to elimination. But I'm not ready to make any huge conclusions about this line yet.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

What exactly makes him less effective or dangerous than before? I just don’t understand this line of thinking? Like ok, the stats over the last couple seasons may show that, but then how does that explain what Sam Bennett is doing? Johnny Gaudreau in my opinion, experienced his own “Sam Bennett” awakening when he found himself with new linemates.

Good players like to play with good players and when wingers like Gaudreau aren’t being double and triple teamed, it’s pretty amazing how much easier it is to play the game. My personal belief is that Gaudreau is still as good as he’s ever been, because it’s not so much his physical gifts that make him elite, it’s his mind. His instincts and hockey IQ is off the charts and you don’t lose this at the age of 27. He still has plenty of years left as an elite player.

Great.
You are allowed to have that opinion and we should be able to debate those points and even agree to disagree.

I see remarkably poor even strength production until recently.
I see a player less willing to go to the tough areas
I see a player that became predictable, but again I think that has improved somewhat.

All things you can disagree about.

But when you start with "those people should watch a new sport" it doesn't get that discussion off on the right foot.

[Vinny01]

I really enjoyed the top line once it was put together but I am struggling to see how this team can improve around this line?

I caught the Gaudreau and Tkachuk presser today and I got the sense Johnny is a lot happier here currently than Tkachuk is. Johnny talked about Sutter being the boss and it being on him to make the proper adjustments to do what was needed. Tkachuk seemed to talk about confusion about why he wasn’t playing and basically said things got better once he was put on the top line.

I am open to keeping both if we can sign both but I feel like after today there is a chance that Johnny will outlast Chucky on the Flames.

Tkachuk+1st (21) + 2nd (22) for Eichel would be a deal I that would be a game changer for the Flames. Keep Johnny and now you have elite centers with a blueline that is full of guys just entering their prime, a number 1 goalie signed long term, an elite coach, and a couple of solid wingers including an elite one in Gaudreau

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by CGY12

If it was related to covid then obviously thats completely different but I highly doubt the Flames tsn beat reporter would be posting that quote on twitter if it was related to covid.

And how do we know Lindholm wasn't being intentionally vague? Did he clarify what "it" was? How do we know if he was using the royal we and calling out teammates without doing it directly? My point is that all these proclamation statements about players "quitting on the team" or "having a losing attitude" needing to be traded are non-productive. Slow your roll before polishing the pitchforks, man. It's not unheard of that a journalist will post a quote that makes you want to read the article even if it isn't the most representative look at the article.

Lindholm is a quiet warrior. He has shown up and played this year; 47 points in 56 games and a plus player on a team that couldn't consistently put it together. I think the relative isolation has had a bigger influence on player outlook and attitude than it is being given credit for. Does that mean that the Flames are less mentally tough than other teams? Maybe but lets not say they're entitled or anything like that. They're human.