Brad Treliving needs to go

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

And of course with those awful hires he stunted the growth and development of numerous top end players drafted by the organization

I feel hiring Gulutzan was the mistake that led led to the downfall of the rebuild and ultimately cost him his job. Gulutzan stunted Bennett, implemented the perimeter hockey that this club started resorting back to under Ward, and his square peg in round hole defensive pairings almost ruined Brodie's career. One of the worst offenses that doesn't get discussed much is that he actually had Hamilton on the 2nd PP unit for some time which is criminal. It seems the team has not been able to shake the soft and indifferent play Gulutzan implemented and I bet even Darryl had no idea how bad it was when he took the job.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Treliving probably won’t get the boot.

Said it before, but the Flames are just coming off a season with 0 gate or concession revenues. Treliving has two years left on his deal. I would be very surprised if the Flames cut ties with Treliving, paid his remaining salary and hired a replacement to pay as well.

Far more likely scenario is Treliving gets this offseason and next year to correct course. If the Flames miss the playoffs or don’t show marked improvement, then the conversation become a lot more realistic in my mind.

Sometimes you have to accept the sunk cost. The dude is an average GM at best and he hasn't done anything to stay on for another two years. I cringe to think of the state of the team after the next two years if he's still here.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Treliving probably won’t get the boot.

Said it before, but the Flames are just coming off a season with 0 gate or concession revenues. Treliving has two years left on his deal. I would be very surprised if the Flames cut ties with Treliving, paid his remaining salary and hired a replacement to pay as well.

Far more likely scenario is Treliving gets this offseason and next year to correct course. If the Flames miss the playoffs, or don’t show marked improvement, then the conversation become a lot more realistic in my mind.

The organization decided to pay for 3 coaches this year and go get a big name so I am not sure we should discount their willingness to spend on a GM if they feel that GM will move the team forward ASAP.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

One thing Treliving is directly responsible for is the hiring of 3 straight garbage coaches. That is his responsibility and he failed 3 straight times. And it's not even a "fit" issue - its the fact that the 3 coaches he chose will NEVER be HCs in the NHL again. That is quite some feat.

The hires didn’t work out, obviously, but I think this is overblown and there are explanations as to why.

Treliving hired Gulutzan because he wanted a young coach to grow with a young team. Coming off of a notorious hard ass coach who the players wanted gone, this seemed like a reasonable direction. Was it the wrong individual? Well, hard to argue it wasn’t. That said, it was the players, again, who appeared to quit on their coach.

Treliving then hired a coach he had first hand experience with and won a world championship with. It sure looked like a good selection for the first 8 months or so. Sh*t hit the fan. Who’s fault was it? Well, obviously, start with Peters then you can go to the Blackhawks and Hurricanes for not dealing with their own in house issues appropriately. Could have Treliving asked/talked to more people, yeah he probably could have.

The Ward thing is where this argument really falls apart. Friedman has said the Flames started talking to Sutter after Peters left. Ward was the interim coach and, it seems like, the Flames were in conversations with Sutter who had previously retired, and evidently not ready to commit to coming out of retirement. Then the pandemic hits. Probably another reason to give Sutter pause. The season concludes and the Flames are silent for 3-4 weeks on the coaching situation. What were they deliberating? Well, based on what we have heard since, it seems like they were talking to Sutter, probably making it clear to him the job is his if he wants it. When it became apparent he was not ready, the team signed Ward to a two year deal at presumably low cost. Otherwise, easy to walk away from. Fast forward 6 months or so and Sutter is back.

[Vinny01]

I don’t know I hated the Gulutzan hiring from day 1, hated the Peters hiring from day 1 and was not happy when they just gave Ward the job.

The Sutter hiring was the first and only time a coaching change under Treliving got me pumped. I was pumped they fired Gulutzan but then extremely disappointed they just gave the job to Peters when both Sutter and AV were on the market.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The organization decided to pay for 3 coaches this year and go get a big name so I am not sure we should discount their willingness to spend on a GM if they feel that GM will move the team forward ASAP.

Fair, but I think a far more likely scenario is the Flames hire a POHO and let him make the call. If this is the case I think Treliving gets this year. If there is going to be a change, how deep do the Flames cut? Conroy, Maloney, Pascal, are they spared?

The changes I think that need to happen are to the roster, not to management. I don’t think both are going to happen this offseason, it’s one or the other. Taken into full account, I think Treliving gets the year.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t know I hated the Gulutzan hiring from day 1, hated the Peters hiring from day 1 and was not happy when they just gave Ward the job.

The Sutter hiring was the first and only time a coaching change under Treliving got me pumped. I was pumped they fired Gulutzan but then extremely disappointed they just gave the job to Peters when both Sutter and AV were on the market.

Well, again, I think they wanted to hire Sutter as far back as the Peters dismissal. When that wasn’t on the table, they were willing to bide their time. They got the guy they wanted.

[Igottago]

Those coaching hires never made sense on any level. I don't think anyone can sit here and say they were genuinely excited about any of those announcements. With Gulutzan it was "who?". With Peters it was "why?". And with Ward it was "facepalm, not this again". It took 5 years since removing Hartley to get a legit high quality NHL head coach.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by flambers

I heard it, it was on Fan960 awhile ago. I think it was more of his opinion when they were talking about the Flames

Anything coming out of Francis's piehole is speculation. He hedged a 50/50 bet because he doesn't know and he can come out looking like he has a clue regardless of the outcome.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Fair, but I think a far more likely scenario is the Flames hire a POHO and let him make the call. If this is the case I think Treliving gets this year. If there is going to be a change, how deep do the Flames cut? Conroy, Maloney, Pascal, are they spared?

The changes I think that need to happen are to the roster, not to management. I don’t think both are going to happen this offseason, it’s one or the other. Taken into full account, I think Treliving gets the year.

I think you are right but if they hire a POHO does Treliving become dead man walking like Feaster was? I would certainly welcome Davidson in that role if they look to fill or.

I think if Treliving is fired then Maloney is gone for sure and possibly Pascal as well. I think Conroy survives as he was inherited by Treliving and not brought in by him.

I don’t disagree that they will give him one more chance but I am less convinced of it now than I was a couple months ago.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Those coaching hires never made sense on any level. I don't think anyone can sit here and say they were genuinely excited about any of those announcements. With Gulutzan it was "who?". With Peters it was "why?". And with Ward it was "facepalm, not this again". It took 5 years since removing Hartley to get a legit high quality NHL head coach.

Okay, sure. Think Colorado fans were excited about Bednar? Think Blues fans were excited about Berube? Lighting fans with Cooper?

Coaching hires should be based on more than who is popular.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Agreed on all of the coaching hires starting with Gulutzan. It was basically silly for a new GM to hire a young unsuccessful coach to lead a young inexperienced team.

People love to jump on the phrase identity, but to me that is relevant. We can talk about other things like standards, commitment, accountability, compete and pace. Those things all seem to have at least reduced or apparently disappeared from the Flames. Smartest guy in the room move that backfired

It was after enduring the brutal dead Flames years under Brent, seeing some promise post blowup with Hartley injecting enthusiasm and squeezing success out of a young roster that had no business succeeding, and then enduring Gulutzan that I dumped my season tickets.

Then a guy who had never made the playoffs or had success in the league they actually play in. Another wtf, smartest guy in the room move. And then Ward.

Each time Tre explains why these ‘off the board’ picks are the right choice. At this point, no reason to have any confidence in the GM ability to evaluate and select head coaches

At least Sutter has pedigree, and good sass in his interviews, but it unfortunately means boring hockey.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think you are right but if they hire a POHO does Treliving become dead man walking like Feaster was? I would certainly welcome Davidson in that role if they look to fill or.

I think if Treliving is fired then Maloney is gone for sure and possibly Pascal as well. I think Conroy survives as he was inherited by Treliving and not brought in by him.

I don’t disagree that they will give him one more chance but I am less convinced of it now than I was a couple months ago.

I like JD as well, but an interesting tidbit is he has two daughters who have children. One lives in Minnesota, the other in Columbus. Portzline recently wrote about JD returning to the BJ’s. seems like a plausible scenario.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

I agree, but the problem with Monahan particularly was easy to spot two years ago and most certainly last year. Sutter has gotten the most out of him since taking over, but he can't possibly be relied upon as a number one centre any longer.



A team simply cannot compete when its number one centre is getting outplayed consistently by the opposition, something that the last two playoff appearances and all of last regular season told us would happen this year.



Treliving failed to address that this off season. Instead, he spent all his available cap space on a goalie, which is important, but not nearly as important as a number one centre for this group. Even if he could not obtain a true number one centre this past off season, I'd argue that acquiring another top 6 forward should have been a priority over a goaltender.

Does nobody think Lindholm is a number one centre? I know he's not top 10 but stats wise he's in the top 30 for points at centre playing on a terribly low scoring team.

He's right around many of the players we say we covet.

He plays a 200 foot game. Seems to be able to distribute the puck well. Plays with bit of an edge.

I get that we need to draft a bonafide star centre but that's easier said than done. And until that happens it might be easier to find a true right wing to play with him.

All this talk about Monahan as number one when he hasn't been that since Lindholm moved over from the wing.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by chedder

Does nobody think Lindholm is a number one centre? I know he's not top 10 but stats wise he's in the top 30 for points at centre playing on a terribly low scoring team.

He's right around many of the players we say we covet.

He plays a 200 foot game. Seems to be able to distribute the puck well. Plays with bit of an edge.

I get that we need to draft a bonafide star centre but that's easier said than done. And until that happens it might be easier to find a true right wing to play with him.

All this talk about Monahan as number one when he hasn't been that since Lindholm moved over from the wing.

Lindholm is a good number one centre, but a great number two centre. I think you need two Lindholm's if you don't have a superstar centre. Monahan hasn't played to Lindholm's level in quite some time.

I agree that it would be easier to find another top 6 player. That's what Treliving should have done this past off season.

[DeluxeMoustache]

This #1C stuff is overplayed.

If that’s the difference, why are the Vegas Golden Knights not down with the Flames in the standings?

They are the top team in the entire league

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

This #1C stuff is overplayed.

If that’s the difference, why are the Vegas Golden Knights not down with the Flames in the standings?

They are the top team in the entire league

Because they're centres have not been as bad as Monahan? I get that he's injured, but stating that Vegas's centres have played better than Calgary's shouldnt be a revelation.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t know I hated the Gulutzan hiring from day 1, hated the Peters hiring from day 1 and was not happy when they just gave Ward the job.

The Sutter hiring was the first and only time a coaching change under Treliving got me pumped. I was pumped they fired Gulutzan but then extremely disappointed they just gave the job to Peters when both Sutter and AV were on the market.

That beauty if the internet is that the history is there as you can go back to the threads when Gulutzan was hired. I hated it as did others. It was a terrible hire from day one and it's going to haunt him for the rest of his tenure with the Flames.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

Because they're centres have not been as bad as Monahan? I get that he's injured, but stating that Vegas's centres have played better than Calgary's shouldnt be a revelation.

And how have their wingers been?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

This #1C stuff is overplayed.

If that’s the difference, why are the Vegas Golden Knights not down with the Flames in the standings?

They are the top team in the entire league

VGK is kinda the exception that proves the rule. They’ve managed it with a pretty unique combo of team play and goaltending. The year the Blues won it they were an exception as well, and the fact they slid back a little maybe shows how hard it is to maintain the level without an elite 1C (ROR is great, but not an offensive catalyst on the level of many other top line Cs).

Shorter: it’s can be done but it’s pretty hard, without a true top centre. As good an all around player as Lindholm is, he’s not Matthews, McDavid, Mackinnon, Barkov, Aho, Scheifele, Crosby, Barzal, Bergeron, Point etc. I don’t think he’s quite a top 20 centre in this league.