Adam Fox & the NCAA "Loophole?"

[getbak]

As I understand it, Ivy League financial aid is needs-based. So, it depends on the student's family's ability to pay. Since a lot of top-level hockey players come from wealthy families, they may not get as much as other non-athletes from less-wealthy backgrounds.

For example, I would guess that Brady Tkachuk received a full-ride scholarship from BU for the one season he played there. If he had gone to Harvard, he wouldn't have likely received anything since he's the son a professional athlete who made over $80 million in his career.



Obviously, I have no idea how it actually works in practice. It could be corrupt as hell, but that's how it's supposed to work.

[FlamesAddiction]

Apparently Jack Johnson pulled this with Carolina which is why they traded him to L.A.

I am sure it frustrates the heck out of some GMs and owners. But some of them, like those of the teams that stand to benefit, probably don't mind as much. It's not a universal problem, so it doesn't get dealt with. Owners have never had an issue screwing other owners.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

No. These kids have no guarantee at a multi year multimillion dollar career. Forgoing education to chase it is idiotic.

They don’t forgo their education, they forgo eligibility to play at the collegiate level. Quite a few NFL guys finish their degrees in the off season

[Reaper]

Draft teams should still have an exclusive two year window to sign a US College player but the clock doesn't start until the player formally submits an "Intent to Negotiate" letter to the draft club. The clock would be automatically started upon graduation/completing their final season of eligibility.

As NCAA players can't really have an Agent without compromising their eligibility the draft team can't really negotiate with a player until they're out of school. I'm not saying that draft teams wouldn't lobby a player during rookie/summer camps or loving phone calls but there's no potential risk to taking a Major Junior player out for a celebratory dinner after the draft. The Major Junior player doesn't risk not being able to play in their current system over a free meal; NCAA players do.

[bigpete]

The Score article just popped up on my newsfeed saying that Fox is the frontrunner for the Norris this year. Basically point per game and ridiculous underlying numbers.

How nice would that be on this team right now?

[dammage79]

Sure, it'd be nice. But he wasn't signing here. Ever.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by bigpete

The Score article just popped up on my newsfeed saying that Fox is the frontrunner for the Norris this year. Basically point per game and ridiculous underlying numbers.

How nice would that be on this team right now?

There was an analysis on the athletic where he was top 5 for the Hart. We will see what happens with Dougie this summer but that was such a win-win trade for both teams. Too bad Fox forced his way to NY.

In the past decade the Flames have drafted 2 superstars in the 3rd and 4th round and Mangiapane has the potential to be a special player for a 6th round pick

[rohara66]

I hope Alan Fox never wins a Norris.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by bigpete

The Score article just popped up on my newsfeed saying that Fox is the frontrunner for the Norris this year. Basically point per game and ridiculous underlying numbers.

How nice would that be on this team right now?

Pretty dang nice. Too bad he had no desire to play for this team, so we improvised and acquired a cost-controlled top 6 C/RW and a top 4 LD.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by rohara66

I hope Alan Fox never wins a Norris.

probably a safe bet

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Sure, it'd be nice. But he wasn't signing here. Ever.

He should have had to sign with the Flames. They were the team with the foresight to draft him. What's the point of having a draft and including college players if they are allowed to sign wherever the #### they want?

[ben voyonsdonc]

I'm trying to think of a decent alternative to the current rules around NCAA players. Maybe if the player doesn't sign, it could be like a Rule 5 in baseball where any team can pick them but must conform with some rules (such as must remain on team roster for entire year) but instead of being returned to the previous team like in Rule 5 if the team opts not to do that, the player becomes a free agent.

I think the biggest gap in the rule is that free agency is a pretty big incentive not to sign. If the player didn't have control over where they would end up, they might have more incentive to sign with the team that drafted them.

[SeanCharles]

This franchise is cursed

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Sure, it'd be nice. But he wasn't signing here. Ever.

I think he would have signed if we made a spot for him. His main concern was playing behind Hamilton, Hamonic, Andersson etc and getting Sam Bennett'd/Oliver Kylington'd

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I think he would have signed if we made a spot for him. His main concern was playing behind Hamilton, Hamonic, Andersson etc and getting Sam Bennett'd/Oliver Kylington'd

Don’t think so. My guess is Flames promised him a spot behind the scenes too and he still refused.

Carolina promised him a spot and he still didn’t sign there either.

He was only signing with the NYR. That was the rumor, and that’s what ended up happening, it was inevitable with these rules.

Still think that drafted prospects should be treated as RFAs. A max rookie contract should be seen as a qualifying offer, and if the team makes that deal to the player then you retain their rights.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Don’t think so. My guess is Flames promised him a spot behind the scenes too and he still refused.

Carolina promised him a spot and he still didn’t sign there either.

He was only signing with the NYR. That was the rumor, and that’s what ended up happening, it was inevitable with these rules.

Still think that drafted prospects should be treated as RFAs. A max rookie contract should be seen as a qualifying offer, and if the team makes that deal to the player then you retain their rights.

I believe it was Caged Great who chatted with Fox during one of the dev camps and Fox's main source of reticence was the Flames' RD depth. Maybe he can confirm?

Carolina had Hamilton too so it's not much of a change. An offensive RD doesn't want to be second fiddle to Dougie Hamilton.

These guys don't want spots, they want huge roles. Because they believe in themselves, and know how much poor usage can not only tank their careers, but their chance to legitimately develop.

We haven't even been able to give Juuso Valimaki a huge role.

[AustinL_NHL]

Definitely hurts.

Would easily be the best player on the Flames

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I'm trying to think of a decent alternative to the current rules around NCAA players. Maybe if the player doesn't sign, it could be like a Rule 5 in baseball where any team can pick them but must conform with some rules (such as must remain on team roster for entire year) but instead of being returned to the previous team like in Rule 5 if the team opts not to do that, the player becomes a free agent.

I think the biggest gap in the rule is that free agency is a pretty big incentive not to sign. If the player didn't have control over where they would end up, they might have more incentive to sign with the team that drafted them.

NHL teams retain rights until age 24 (if they choose no to release them beforehand), but the player, even though not signed, counts as one of the 50 contracts. This would give incentive to both players sign and teams to sign them. NCAA players not signed by this time would then be subject to waivers and regualr waiver rules would apply.

The current rule is not a loop hole as it is pretty clear in the CBA. The thing with FOX is that the Flames did not nearly get enough for the player as he was basically a throw in at the time.

[InternationalVillager]

I was upset about Adam Fox until I drafted him in my Fantasy Hockey Dynasty League and he has exploded in this manner. Adam Fox owes me nothing. All debts have been paid.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I believe it was Caged Great who chatted with Fox during one of the dev camps and Fox's main source of reticence was the Flames' RD depth. Maybe he can confirm?

Carolina had Hamilton too so it's not much of a change. An offensive RD doesn't want to be second fiddle to Dougie Hamilton.

These guys don't want spots, they want huge roles. Because they believe in themselves, and know how much poor usage can not only tank their careers, but their chance to legitimately develop.

We haven't even been able to give Juuso Valimaki a huge role.

Well yeah he’s not going to come out and say “I’m not going to sign here any under circumstances, I’m only going to sign with the NYR”.

Of course if asked he will say it’s because of the Flames RH defensive depth, but the rumors going back to his first year post draft was their were connections tying him to the NYR.

Flames probably should have moved Hamilton first (maybe put Kylington in that trade instead), and then tried to sign Fox, but if he still refuses then you are down two promising young d-prospects at that time.

My gut is the only way Fox gets moved is if he flat out said he’d never sign here...and based on how it all played out that seems like it might be true.

You don’t just trade a 3rd round pick that you made, who only develops even better post draft into a PPG d-man college stud, unless you feel like it’s your only choice.

Carolina said all the same things post trade too.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/artic...14825_27981848

Hell Fox even acknowledged the rumors about him only wanting to play for the Rangers right in that article. Then look only a few months later:

https://cardiaccane.com/2019/04/02/c...s-to-adam-fox/

Honestly with how it all plays out it hard to argue that he didn’t just want to play in New York.