[PGT] Habs 2 Flames 1 - Goodbye Playoff Hopes

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by timbit

Please don’t put Johnny and Kane in the same sentence, never mind same category.

It makes you look bad.

Where did I say JG was on the same tier as Kane? They both stir the drink for their teams and both their teams are struggling to make the playoffs. That is the similarity. I get it though, gotta hate Johnny, all the cool kids on here are!

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Quit playing scared?

Stop with the turnovers time after time after time at the opposition blueline.

Quit flying the zone before the team actually has possession and actually play some defense.

Be engaged sometime before game 35 of the season?

He is as big a part of the problem on this team as anyone else and deserves no special treatment because he was really good 2 seasons ago. Same can be said for every core guy.

If he hasn't agreed to an extension by draft day, he must be traded. Period. Cannot let him walk for nothing even if you want him back to begin with.

You have been on and on about him but refuse to acknowledge the massive warts in his game.

He has been engaged all season, he has been neutered by mediocre linemates. Johnny backchecks more than most skill guys, saying he doesn't play any defence is typical T99 bs. Fly the zone, look for offensive chances, not banging bodys? Oh you mean he plays like every skill player in the league. Guess the Oilers should want to run McHobo out of town.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Itse

Hah.

The team was 11-12-2 before Sutter.
The team is 11-12-1 after Sutter.

It's not about the runway.



This. The roster is not good enough.

Treliving abandoned the rebuild at the first sight of success and has shown a clear inability to improve the team through trades and signings. We've seen enough, he needs to go.

I think the roster is fine. Could it use some improvement? Hell yes. A big RW with some ability to finish or make plays would be awesome and make this team way better. Too bad Treliving had a brain cramp and never took a run at Toffoli. Perfect fit with the needs of this team.

The problem I see with this team is still systems and style of play. Sutter is no different than any of the other mental midgets before him. Generating offense off the boards is all but dead in the NHL, but the Flames keep plugging away, like it's 2009, thinking that if they just work harder that more goals will come from bad scoring areas on the ice. They need someone that will get them playing in the other 85% of the ice and using the high danger areas to score goals. Not Sutter's game. He love the ring it around the boards and battle for the puck. Work harder is his mantra. How about working smarter. This team is missing the boat, yet again, and burning opportunity. Get someone who understands the game is won in the middle of the ice and pushes the team to play there, then victories will come. What we have right now is setup for another two years of mediocrity.

[8sPOT]

Monahan getting lots of hate, but he's been quite good defensively under Sutter in my eyes. Tkachuk has been FAR worse in my opinion. Monahan at worst could be a good 2nd line center. What is Tkachuk? He's not drawing penalties anymore, he's not controlling the puck in the o-zone, all he's been doing is dangling his mouth guard while out for a twirl.

At least Johnny is giving it his all out there , making plays, and backchecking. At this rate I'm leaning towards Tkachuk being the odd man out. Never thought I'd say that.

And boy Gio sure got horrible as the game went on. Worst defenseman on the ice in the 3rd.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

He has been engaged all season, he has been neutered by mediocre linemates. Johnny backchecks more than most skill guys, saying he doesn't play any defence is typical T99 bs. Fly the zone, look for offensive chances, not banging bodys? Oh you mean he plays like every skill player in the league. Guess the Oilers should want to run McHobo out of town.

Oh...its the old "needs better line mates" argument now eh?

Why didnt he require that the first 5 years of his career?

And are you seriously trying to state that Johnny Gaudreau is a good defensive hockey player....seriously? Yup...just me spewing BS I guess.

HAHAHAHAHA

69th in the entire NHL in ppg. "Elite".


He is a one trick pony and the league figured his trick out some time ago and he could not or will not adjust.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Oh...its the old "needs better line mates" argument now eh?

Why didnt he require that the first 5 years of his career?

And are you seriously trying to state that Johnny Gaudreau is a good defensive hockey player....seriously? Yup...just me spewing BS I guess.

HAHAHAHAHA

69th in the entire NHL in ppg. "Elite".


He is a one trick pony and the league figured his trick out some time ago and he could not or will not adjust.

Ah, the old I am going to twist your words trick. I never said Gaudreau was a good defensive player. You said it would be nice if he played some defence, he does. He always backchecks in his own zone. Anyone else care to point this out to him?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Oh...its the old "needs better line mates" argument now eh?

Why didnt he require that the first 5 years of his career?

And are you seriously trying to state that Johnny Gaudreau is a good defensive hockey player....seriously? Yup...just me spewing BS I guess.

HAHAHAHAHA

69th in the entire NHL in ppg. "Elite".


He is a one trick pony and the league figured his trick out some time ago and he could not or will not adjust.

Johnny is tied with Mangiapane at 139th in even strength scoring with 20 points, in the NHL.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ah, the old I am going to twist your words trick. I never said Gaudreau was a good defensive player. You said it would be nice if he played some defence, he does. He always backchecks in his own zone. Anyone else care to point this out to him?

You do understand that skating back to your own zone is not the same as back-checking in your own zone....right? In fact back checking can occur long before you reach your own end.

Of course he comes back...hangs near the blueline waiting to head back out. Then flies the zone looking for a pass that he can then turn over at the opposition blueline or skate into the corner and get pushed off the puck. Its a great strategy.

At least you admit he is not a good defensive player though.

He is an offensive wizard WHEN HE HAS space. Not unlike other elite players but the difference is, most of those types of guys create their own space....he simply does not or cannot. That is an issue.

Let me ask you this...do you think he is worth what he is paid right now? Last year?

Are you willing to give him a raise to stay?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by timbit

johnny is tied with mangiapane at 139th in even strength scoring with 20 points, in the nhl.

elite!!

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Itse

Hah.

The team was 11-12-2 before Sutter.
The team is 11-12-1 after Sutter.

It's not about the runway.

How many games of Ward's 11 wins were on Markstrom’s back when he was playing god-like. I'd say a good majority were. If you can't see the difference in the way this team plays between both coaches then I would really question your judgement.

Also take the "hah" comments elsewhere. Makes you sound like an insecure joke instead of the internet tough guy you think it does.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by timbit

Johnny is tied with Mangiapane at 139th in even strength scoring with 20 points, in the NHL.

Safe to say any team trading for Gaudreau is going to be regarding him as a PP specialist.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Safe to say any team trading for Gaudreau is going to be regarding him as a PP specialist.

That is exactly what he has become. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by timbit

With the exception of Lindholm, the Flames top forwards have had a miserable season.

Especially, at even strength.

They have been badly outplayed, for the most part , by the other teams best forwards.

Hence, the dismal record and no playoffs.

This is only partially true IMO. Yes the top guys haven't been as good as they need to be. Monahan and particularly Tkachuk have been huge disappointments. My take on Gaudreau's performance is different than yours. He seems engaged and energetic, but I fully acknowledge there are parts of his game that are lacking. He's just not my point of focus.

But the Flames are built differently than many other teams. Our top forwards are making between $5 and $7 million. That is far less than top forwards on other teams. These savings allowed the team to focus on building depth and a strong D corps.

That's not working.

Look at the results this year. Forwards like Backlund, Bennett, Lucic, Leivo, even Mangiapane and Dube are getting caved in 5 on 5. Monahan too. And the D, other than Tanev and his partner, are getting owned far too often.

Yeah you win with your best players. But this team was constructed to have better than average depth and defenseman. When our top players aren't on the ice, we're getting killed.

It is a poorly constructed team that isn't playing well. We don't have Mcdavid/Draisatl, or Matthews/Marner, Mackinnon/Rantanen, et al. There's no Norris candidates on the back end. I didn't expect our top players to be at that level, but we're not making it up anywhere else.

IMO there's lots of blame to go around.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

How many games of Ward's 11 wins were on Markstrom’s back when he was playing god-like. I'd say a good majority were. If you can't see the difference in the way this team plays between both coaches then I would really question your judgement.

Also take the "hah" comments elsewhere. Makes you sound like an insecure joke instead of the internet tough guy you think it does.

Wow, way to overreact to such a small thing, while basically ignoring the content.

The NHL is not going to give us extra points for "the way we play".

The team has been at 5-5 or worse for 24 games now. Points will obviously fluctuate a bit, but all in all we have not been closing in on Montreal at all, so it's simply inaccurate to talk about running out of runway. There has been no final push, no improvement in results, no ground gained. Unless Montreal collapses or we actually step up our game, we could play like this for another 50 more games and still miss the playffs.

[Vinny01]

I saw this on HFboards on Sunday. Looks like our shooting% and save% are killing the team. The Oilers are having great success in those areas and they are comfortable in a playoff spot

Statistical Division Rankings:

5v5 CF%:

1. Montreal
2. Calgary
3. Toronto
4. Edmonton
5. Winnipeg
6. Ottawa
7. Vancouver

5v5 xGF%:

1. Toronto
2. Montreal
3. Calgary
4. Edmonton
5. Ottawa
6. Winnipeg
7. Vancouver


Special Teams:
Expected PP Goals For/60:

1. Toronto
2. Edmonton
3. Winnipeg
4. Vancouver
5. Calgary
6. Ottawa
7. Montreal

Fewest Expected PK Goals against/60:

1. Toronto
2. Calgary
3. Ottawa
4. Vancouver
5. Montreal
6. Edmonton
7. Winnipeg

Team Save%:

1. Winnipeg
2. Edmonton
3. Vancouver
4. Toronto
5. Calgary
6. Montreal
7. Ottawa

Team Shooting%:

1. Edmonton
2. Winnipeg
3. Toronto
4. Montreal
5. Calgary
6. Vancouver
7. Ottawa​

[Manhattanboy]

Still think there’s too many rose coloured glasses here.

Flames played this season in a garbage division and with the exception of a few games strung together were awful. Even with Sutter behind the bench.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by transplant99

You do understand that skating back to your own zone is not the same as back-checking in your own zone....right? In fact back checking can occur long before you reach your own end.

Of course he comes back...hangs near the blueline waiting to head back out. Then flies the zone looking for a pass that he can then turn over at the opposition blueline or skate into the corner and get pushed off the puck. Its a great strategy.

At least you admit he is not a good defensive player though.

He is an offensive wizard WHEN HE HAS space. Not unlike other elite players but the difference is, most of those types of guys create their own space....he simply does not or cannot. That is an issue.

Let me ask you this...do you think he is worth what he is paid right now? Last year?

Are you willing to give him a raise to stay?

I would absolutely give him his raise to stay providing it is market value. Is he worth what he is paid right now? Easily. With all that has gone with this team and being saddled most of the time with a 4th line RW he is about 70 points pro rated to 82 games for under $7M a year.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I would absolutely give him his raise to stay providing it is market value. Is he worth what he is paid right now? Easily. With all that has gone with this team and being saddled most of the time with a 4th line RW he is about 70 points pro rated to 82 games for under $7M a year.

The REAL proration is 62 points.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Safe to say any team trading for Gaudreau is going to be regarding him as a PP specialist.

Originally Posted by timbit

That is exactly what he has become. Nothing more, nothing less.

Does that make every Flame a PP specialist because he's still 2nd on the team in even strength points?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Does that make every Flame a PP specialist because he's still 2nd on the team in even strength points?

He is tied for 2nd with Mangiapane and Backlund and one point ahead of Monahan.
Two points ahead of Tkachuk and 3 points ahead of Lucic.