2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol @ this thread

Markstrom will be back next year...probably put up a .925+ like he has over the last 7 games

There's is a real strong chance that both Tkachuk and Markstrom will have good seasons next year, and most discussions on either of them might be silly.

But at the same time, there's no deny that they both have bad contracts, even if they do rebound.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by shutout

You dont just jump from Good to GREAT.
Try taking small steps and go from good to being better.
All you have to do is keep improving and you will eventually get there.
No magic way to just become great. But staying where you are and doing nothing is definantly not the way to get better.

The core of this team has issues.
There are enough young pieces that they can continue to be competitive.
If you swap out pieces of the core that are providing this mediocrity you will be better. Lateral swaps, change of scenery trades, even getting back less because of a better contract or a hungier player are all small steps to help the franchise get better.

Start by changing the culture.
Whoever the leadership group (Giordano, Backlunc, Gaudreau) that told Tkachuk that he should tone down his game and not let things get out of control should all be moved. Sends a terrible message to the team.
Tkachuk should be moved because he did nothing but pout about it. If he was going to be the new leader of the team he should have stepped up and said up yours we need to be playing with more passion and be getting involved more instead of sitting idly by with his tail between his legs hugging his big paycheck like a teddy bear.

Team has the talent to complete with most teams if they are prepared, give a crap, and are skating and pushing the play. The fact that they dont do so means it is mostly a character, heart, and mental problem. Any changes at this point in time to those four players means that the team will be better.

Chucky is an emotional guy that plays with an edge/emotion. I dont know that I would expect someone like that to not take it personally. He is still a young insulated young man that's probably used to sunshine being shot up his butt his whole life.

To be fair to him, I know if a co-worker piped up on a conference call in front of the rest of the National Team at work and reprimanded me infront of everyone my first reaction wouldn't be to suck butts and eat the #### sandwich either (depending on how constructive the criticism is of course). If your going to tell him to tone it down it needs to be done subtly. With out knowing how it was said or in front of who, or by who, who knows if he overreacted or if his team mates are just schmucks?

Would you happily continue going to war for those guys after that? (pure speculation of course). but who knows maybe he was taken aside and they told him in the most powder puff way and he still got mad we will never know.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

He has played for terrible defensive teams his entire career. Sutter style for 82 he could easily be in that range.

F Andersen has slightly better overall stats the last 4 full years (since he joined TOR).

In that period:

VAN 24th - 3.05 GA/gp

TOR 20th - 2.96 GA/gp

Top 5 teams were: 2.53-2.72
Bottom 5 were: 3.08-3.26

Similarly porous teams, though VAN a bit worse, which accounts for the difference.

I think Markstrom is better, but there is reason to wonder if last year was an outlier.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

There's is a real strong chance that both Tkachuk and Markstrom will have good seasons next year, and most discussions on either of them might be silly.

But at the same time, there's no deny that they both have bad contracts, even if they do rebound.

6M for .925 goaltending is not bad. Teams pay 10M for worse.

If Markstrom gets back to being a top goalie his contact is more than fair

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by psytic

... My first reaction wouldn't be to suck butts and eat the #### sandwich either (depending on how constructive the criticism is of course).

lol

These guys are pros and millionaires. They don’t go to war for anything. 19 will be fine, and if he isn’t it won’t have anything to do with this.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

6M for .925 goaltending is not bad. Teams pay 10M for worse.

If Markstrom gets back to being a top goalie his contact is more than fair

You mean gets to 0.925, which he never has done before?

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

lol

These guys are pros and millionaires. They don’t go to war for anything. 19 will be fine, and if he isn’t it won’t have anything to do with this.

I'm sure he will be fine that wasn't the point I was making. I wouldn't call him a pouter who needs to be moved because he had a handful of bad games was my point as was stated in the post I quoted. Doesn't matter that he's a millionaire or if he's Bezos. Some are born with more emotional intelligence and emotional awareness to handle adversity than others. There's a line between mental health and professionalism. We dont know enough to say who is in the wrong here or who is or isnt being professional or what even was said or how it was said. Being a millionaire means nothing. There is a shocking amount of movie stars, musicians, etc that suffer from low emotional intelligence, low self esteem, anxiety, etc. We dont really know. In some cases its not a case of maning up but we dont know so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his full body of work to this point.

Edit: however I would trade him because I don't think hes worth his QO but that's another story.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Weitz

You mean gets to 0.925, which he never has done before?

Sutter will likely make it possible, he just needs to look after his own side of the street

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Weitz

You mean gets to 0.925, which he never has done before?

Again terrible defensive teams

I get the feeling some of you didn't watch many Canuck games the last few years

Also, as much as the Canadian division isn't great overall it's still really high scoring.

10 of 56 games against the league's top scorer this season

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Again terrible defensive teams

I get the feeling some of you didn't watch many Canuck games the last few years

Also, as much as the Canadian division isn't great overall it's still really high scoring.

10 of 56 games against the league's top scorer this season

Freddie Andersen:

15-16 = .919; 2.30 ANA = 1st 2.29 GA/gp
16-17 = .918; 2.67 TOR = 22nd 2.85 GA/gp
then .918, .917, .909.

He didn't really skip a beat going from the best defensive team to a poor one. I don't really have a point, other than I'm not convinced Markstrom is/will be any more elite/consistent than Andersen.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Freddie Andersen:

15-16 = .919; 2.30 ANA = 1st 2.29 GA/gp
16-17 = .918; 2.67 TOR = 22nd 2.85 GA/gp
then .918, .917, .909.

He didn't really skip a beat going from the best defensive team to a poor one. I don't really have a point, other than I'm not convinced Markstrom is/will be any more elite/consistent than Andersen.

Numbers aren't really my thing for whether a goalie is elite or not. Kipper regularly vacillated between barely above .900 to above 9.20. Look at his numbers between 2007-12. The save% varied widely, but nor the wins, for the most part. I just want consistency, and healthy Markstrom is consistent.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Kipper is a good illustration of sv% being a team stat. (Also there is an inverse correlation between Kipper’s and Iggy’s stats which supports)

Lots of moving parts but if you recall how the team was generally playing, it checks out

Under Darryl - .933, .923 (Iggy 73, 67 pts)
Playfair - .917 (Iggy 94 pts)
Keenan - .906 and .903 (Iggy 98 and 89) - fire wagon, abandoned defense
Brent - .921 when he emphasized D, then they missed the playoffs (Iggy 69)
- felt like he had dialed it back too much so they started playing more offence - Kipper .906 (Iggy 86)
Then when he reeled it back again .921 (Iggy 67)

Kipper was awesome throughout

Not insignificant, the correlation between team play and his stats

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

There's is a real strong chance that both Tkachuk and Markstrom will have good seasons next year, and most discussions on either of them might be silly.

But at the same time, there's no deny that they both have bad contracts, even if they do rebound.

Markstrom’s contract isn’t bad. Five more years at $6M for a guy who is a reliable-at-worst starting goaltender.

Tkachuk is gone this summer, IMO. The return for him could really help along a rebuild - it won’t be a kings ransom, but you should be able to get a 1st + minimum for that player with two years to convince him to re-sign.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Numbers aren't really my thing for whether a goalie is elite or not. Kipper regularly vacillated between barely above .900 to above 9.20. Look at his numbers between 2007-12. The save% varied widely, but nor the wins, for the most part. I just want consistency, and healthy Markstrom is consistent.

Fair. I don't have a particular issue with Markstrom, I'm just not convinced he is or will be consistently 'elite' (whatever that means for goaltenders). I think he's in the same tier as Andersen (at least until recently) - consistently very good with flashes of brilliance.

I don't mind the signing, though it's contrary to the 2-3 yr re-tool I would have preferred.


I think it's an interesting discussion though. My definition for 'elite' skater is that they could play for Team Canada on their own merit (not Kunitz or Muzzin). I'm not sure that works so well for goalies...maybe could 'start' for Team Canada?

For a couple decades we had 3 generational talents overlap: Roy, Brodeur, Hasek. There probably wasn't more than a year or two in each of their careers where they weren't considered top 3 in the league.

I'm not sure anyone has come close to that standard, but perhaps we can parse the next tier of 'elite'. I suppose my criteria is to be Top 5 in the league for at least 4/5 years, or 7/10.

Somewhat chronological:
Fuhr?
Hextall
Belfour
Joseph
Luongo
Miller
Kipper
Thomas
Lundqvist
Fleury
Quick
Price
Hellebuyck
Vasilevskiy*


Vernon?
Vanbiesbrouck?
Richter?
Barrasso?
Kolzig?
Vokoun?
Nabokov?
Khabibulin?
Giguere?
Theodore?
Backstrom?
Anderson?
Rinne?
Dubnyk?
Bobrovsky?
Rask?
Gibson?

Then there's the consistently good, but rarely great tier: Osgood, Burke, Turco, Crawford, Holtby, Mike Smith, Elliott, Ward? Bishop?...Freddie Andersen?


I think there are several current guys who are hard to slot, and have to do more to secure their spot: Markstrom, Kuemper, Binnington, Lehner, Varlamov

[SilverKast]

I love Tkachuk but I’d look pretty hard at moving him simply due to contract. Both what it may take to keep him here and his fathers history of contracts. He made sure he looked after himself first and foremost and didn’t do teams any favours in that department - and I’d be shocked if his sons don’t try to do the same.

Those just seem like type of contract scenarios that we can’t afford.

[GioforPM]

My “elite goalie” list is pretty short, unless I count “elite for a couple years”. Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Price.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

How would you handle Markstrom?
He might be too good of a goalie to allow the Flames to bottom out.
And he would be too old by the time it's 2024 or so.

Markstrom hasn’t shown himself to be elite here, so I look at him as a quality starting goalie.

I don’t see him as a problem one way or the other. Most teams have starting goalies, it’s just that we went more than a half decade without one that makes it stand out for us.

The Blackhawks went down with Crawford. The Rangers with Lundqvist. Anaheim’s tanking with Gibson. Montreal drafted 3rd with Price in the net.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

My “elite goalie” list is pretty short, unless I count “elite for a couple years”. Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Price.

No Kipper?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

My “elite goalie” list is pretty short, unless I count “elite for a couple years”. Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Price.

Interesting - I’m not sure I have Price above Thomas, Kipper, Lundqvist, or Fleury (or maybe some 80s/90s guys), but I’d have to dig deeper to be sure


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[dammage79]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Interesting - I’m not sure I have Price above Thomas, Kipper, Lundqvist, or Fleury (or maybe some 80s/90s guys), but I’d have to dig deeper to be sure


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Or Plante, Hall, Dryden, Sawchuk, Belfour. Hell, even Tony Esposito