2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The time to be bad is now.

The 2022 and 2023 drafts are the years this team should do a targeted tank-job. Those years have players worth targeting. I really hope it’s the route this organization takes. I’m tired of them languishing around 16th overall.

This team as it is today is not “good”, and doesn’t have the players to trade in order to improve today’s roster without completely crippling the future (and the future is already bleak). To me, the only actual path forward if this team wants to reach contender status is a rebuild. The timing is right. The asset base we have today is right. Just do it.

How would you handle Markstrom?
He might be too good of a goalie to allow the Flames to bottom out.
And he would be too old by the time it's 2024 or so.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

How would you handle Markstrom?
He might be too good of a goalie to allow the Flames to bottom out.
And he would be too old by the time it's 2024 or so.

With his injury history, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for him to get injured during one of those seasons. Would I want him injured? No, absolutely not, I don't hope for any injury on any player on any team. But realistically speaking, Markstrom could potentially be injured. He already got injured this season, so having a capable backup that can start minutes would be ideal next season.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

How would you handle Markstrom?
He might be too good of a goalie to allow the Flames to bottom out.
And he would be too old by the time it's 2024 or so.

Markstrom might be the tank commander lol

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

How would you handle Markstrom?
He might be too good of a goalie to allow the Flames to bottom out.
And he would be too old by the time it's 2024 or so.

Trade him back to Vancouver for Ericsson and a bunch of 1sts


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[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Trade him back to Vancouver for Ericsson and a bunch of 1sts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think a 31 year old goalie with a 90.2% and 5 years left at 6 mill with worth "a bunch of 1sts". Ericsson's contract can be bought out this summer, if I'm not mistaken. Plus, Markstrom has an NMC, although I guess he would waive it to avoid a rebuild.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Let me add that I don’t mean to rain in on everyone’s parade because in a vacuum, a lot of these trade proposals look fine. But it’s like, from a big picture standpoint, are we trying to get better or are we trying to stay good? I have no interest in staying good unless there’s a clear and obvious path to becoming great.

For me, I think I’d be willing to burn futures if it can get us to great, but when the window has completely closed shut and it’s time to be bad, lets be really bad and get those McDavid’s and Matthew’s of the world.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The time to be bad is now.

The 2022 and 2023 drafts are the years this team should do a targeted tank-job. Those years have players worth targeting. I really hope it’s the route this organization takes. I’m tired of them languishing around 16th overall.

This team as it is today is not “good”, and doesn’t have the players to trade in order to improve today’s roster without completely crippling the future (and the future is already bleak). To me, the only actual path forward if this team wants to reach contender status is a rebuild. The timing is right. The asset base we have today is right. Just do it.

The rebuild conversation is an interesting one, but I don’t see it happening. This organization has never willfully entered a rebuild. The only time it happened recently, they were dragged into it kicking and screaming. And the very first sign the could get out of it, they leapt. They’ve never selected in the top 3 and only once in the top 5, that’s not a coincidence. From all indications (Sutter & Markstrom namely), they still have the foot on the gas.

I’m pretty convinced the direction for next year is going to put a team together that competes for a playoff spot. As Friedman has been known to say ‘ the surest predictor of future behaviour, is past behaviour’

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I don't think a 31 year old goalie with a 90.2% and 5 years left at 6 mill with worth "a bunch of 1sts". Ericsson's contract can be bought out this summer, if I'm not mistaken. Plus, Markstrom has an NMC, although I guess he would waive it to avoid a rebuild.

I was mostly joking, and TBH I thought LE had an extra year left.

His buyout is interesting. Essentially saves $1M real money, and $1M total cap hit. $4M hit next year, $1M the year after.

But if they just bury him it's a $4.875M hit for one year and done. So actually less total cap impact.


I bet they just add a sweetener to ship him off to DET, where he can ride into the sunset like so many Swedes have.

[Poe969]

Expose Markstrom in the expansion draft or make a trade with Seattle to get some assets. He would help them out a lot and it would help us tank lol

[Sandman]

I still believe that even if you tank, and/or rebuild, you need to keep a capable goalie around, along with a few good vets throughout the lineup, to give the team a "chance" at winning. You can't hand the keys to the team off to a bunch of kids the way the Oilers did when they were first rebuilding, or you'll be just be training a bunch of youngsters how to be losers.

[Dajazz]

I know you shouldn’t sell low, but isn’t Tkachuk one player that isn’t talked about?

Devastating upcoming cap hit / QO as a left handed winger.

Flames fans talk about how much Brady would cost, well, how much would Ottawa have to pay up?

[jayswin]

^^^^^^
That was a horribly structured contract. Just awful, and a complete win by player and agent on an RFA deal. It was like "can we walk this player to free agency as quickly as possible? Sure, we'll give him three years, with a fourth year where he gets a huge qualifying offer that he can sign and walk away from the team after the season".

Just putrid. And by all accounts it happened because Treliving failed to get rid of any bottom six contracts to make room for a proper deal.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by jayswin

^^^^^^
That was horribly structured contract. Just awful, and a complete win by player and agent on an RFA deal. It was like "can we walk this player to free agency as quickly as possible? Sure, we'll give him three years, with a fourth year where he gets a huge qualifying offer that he can sign and walk away from the team after the season".

Just putrid. And by all accounts it happened because Treliving failed to get rid of any bottom six contracts to make room for a proper deal.

Yea, that surprised me as it was a very “un-Treliving” RFA contract.

I think also at the time many questions MT’s long term interest in staying with the club. Anyway. I think it is an interesting opportunity (and risk), but if anyone could return a strong center or RW winger it is MT.

[bigrangy]

The Tkachuk deal was a solid deal when Tkachuk looked like a franchise guy and the cap wasn’t flat. He picked a great time to turn into a pumpkin but that was definitely a fair value deal when it was signed.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

The Tkachuk deal was a solid deal when Tkachuk looked like a franchise guy and the cap wasn’t flat. He picked a great time to turn into a pumpkin but that was definitely a fair value deal when it was signed.

I'm fine with the dollar amount. I think he still has a lot more to give and I am optimistic that he gets there. It's the fact that it's so short that bothers me. Major flight risk at this point.

[dino7c]

lol @ this thread

Markstrom will be back next year...probably put up a .925+ like he has over the last 7 games

[Geeoff]

I had a dream we traded Hanifin to the Pittsburgh Penguins in a 3-way deal with the Florida Panthers, with a bunch of pieces moved around. The Flames notably receiving Owen Tippett and a 1st + other stuff.

Seems like an L for everyone but Pittsburgh

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by jayswin

^^^^^^
That was a horribly structured contract. Just awful, and a complete win by player and agent on an RFA deal. It was like "can we walk this player to free agency as quickly as possible? Sure, we'll give him three years, with a fourth year where he gets a huge qualifying offer that he can sign and walk away from the team after the season".

Just putrid. And by all accounts it happened because Treliving failed to get rid of any bottom six contracts to make room for a proper deal.

Context of that off-season matters. Choices were probably something like:

8x10M
6x8.5M
3x7M with poison pill
holdout

We probably got the best of the options...

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol @ this thread

Markstrom will be back next year...probably put up a .925+ like he has over the last 7 games

That would be a career high by 7 pts. .912 - 2.7x is probably who he is.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yeah that's why there seems to be a fit. Both franchises have had "anything that can go wrong will" types of seasons. And both are at a stage where they were expecting to compete.

I would do a Konecky for Johnny deal. Not because it makes the Flames better per say but it resets the clock on the asset in a favorable way.

And if you can get say a Bobby Brink added - even better.

I don't know what's happened to Hart. I would have bet money on him being one of the more consistent number 1 tenders in the league.

If you have the Athletic this is a great article about Hart.

https://theathletic.com/2496263/2021...oalies-future/

"Why is Carter Hart struggling?
Hart being an undersized goalie with exceptional smarts with good but not exceptional quickness isn’t new information, it was his scouting report for years. It worked before in the NHL, why isn’t it working now?

“It looks like he’s not processing things the way he used to,” said one NHL scout. “With his size, he needs to be on every night with his decisions and reads.”"

[shutout]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Let me add that I don’t mean to rain in on everyone’s parade because in a vacuum, a lot of these trade proposals look fine. But it’s like, from a big picture standpoint, are we trying to get better or are we trying to stay good? I have no interest in staying good unless there’s a clear and obvious path to becoming great.

For me, I think I’d be willing to burn futures if it can get us to great, but when the window has completely closed shut and it’s time to be bad, lets be really bad and get those McDavid’s and Matthew’s of the world.

You dont just jump from Good to GREAT.
Try taking small steps and go from good to being better.
All you have to do is keep improving and you will eventually get there.
No magic way to just become great. But staying where you are and doing nothing is definantly not the way to get better.

The core of this team has issues.
There are enough young pieces that they can continue to be competitive.
If you swap out pieces of the core that are providing this mediocrity you will be better. Lateral swaps, change of scenery trades, even getting back less because of a better contract or a hungier player are all small steps to help the franchise get better.

Start by changing the culture.
Whoever the leadership group (Giordano, Backlunc, Gaudreau) that told Tkachuk that he should tone down his game and not let things get out of control should all be moved. Sends a terrible message to the team.
Tkachuk should be moved because he did nothing but pout about it. If he was going to be the new leader of the team he should have stepped up and said up yours we need to be playing with more passion and be getting involved more instead of sitting idly by with his tail between his legs hugging his big paycheck like a teddy bear.

Team has the talent to complete with most teams if they are prepared, give a crap, and are skating and pushing the play. The fact that they dont do so means it is mostly a character, heart, and mental problem. Any changes at this point in time to those four players means that the team will be better.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Context of that off-season matters. Choices were probably something like:

8x10M
6x8.5M
3x7M with poison pill
holdout

We probably got the best of the options...



That would be a career high by 7 pts. .912 - 2.7x is probably who he is.

He has played for terrible defensive teams his entire career. Sutter style for 82 he could easily be in that range.