We saw the two games where Monahan didnt play this year when he was hurt. If I remember correctly we dominated those games and looked like Stanley Cup contenders....
You remember incorrectly. They lost to the Oilers 2-1 and 71. Then he came back and they beat the Leafs 3-0 and Monahan got 2 points.
But swell try.
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Monahan is not looking “OK” to me. The trend in his goal scoring over last three years is terrifying.
His goalscoring is way off, obviously. But that wasn't my point. Since the line switch he's looking better to me. Carrying the puck, creating more. Sutter seems to love him. The line hasn't scored though, aside from their first game. Obviously more goals would be better. But Monahan is playing with a second year second rounder and a third year 6th rounder. So scoring is going to be an issue.
This isn't about him versus Gaudreau. Gaudreau has been on and off. He's looked great in some shifts and he's had a few points. But he's still doing Gaudreau things. Tkachuk ain't helping him either. But compared to, say three weeks in, yes Monahan is looking much better.
His goalscoring is way off, obviously. But that wasn't my point. Since the line switch he's looking better to me. Carrying the puck, creating more. Sutter seems to love him. The line hasn't scored though, aside from their first game. Obviously more goals would be better. But Monahan is playing with a second year second rounder and a third year 6th rounder. So scoring is going to be an issue.
Mangiapane is the best goal scorer on this team and has been for nearly two seasons. Painting him as merely a third year 6th rounder is disingenuous at best. He's produced on every other line.
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Mangiapane is the best goal scorer on this team and has been for nearly two seasons. Painting him as merely a third year 6th rounder is disingenuous at best. He's produced on every other line.
Based on in the same time frame, Lindholm is the best goalscorer on the team. And, after him, Tkachuk.
Mangiapane has outperformed his draft position. But it's just as disengenous to pretend Monahan has linemates equal to Gaudreau's, either in pedigree, or in past performance, or in expectations going forward. Mangiapane has, in fact, sagged a bit over the last month and a half. His March was way off what his February was (and that was prior to the line change).
Based on in the same time frame, Lindholm is the best goalscorer on the team. And, after him, Tkachuk.
Here is the 5v5 goal production of the team's forwards over that time span:
Mangiapane is tied with Lindholm in goals, but has done it in fewer minutes. Tkachuk isn't even in the conversation without powerplay or 3v3 scoring, which we're not discussing here.
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Johnny had more giveaways (5) than ALL the Sens forwards , combined. Couple that with zero shots on goal and that’s a huge problem.
Yes, he made a nice pass on Lindholm’s goal. That’s NOT enough.
Tkachuk had similar giveaway problems also, but had some scoring chances.
I firmly believe that Sutter, in his post game conference is pointing out these 2 key players as being a huge reason for the loss, along with some D blunders.
One of those scoring chances was from Gaudreau on the PP in the second(?) or third(?). Had Murray moving laterally with a nice pass from Gaudreau but unfortunately Tkachuk couldn't finish.
Gaudreau didn't have a great game (I think those 5 GA is accurate) but he set up the goal and almost set up Tkachuk for a crucial goal.
Meh. Lucic has been a more dangerous winger than Gaudreau. I’ve already said Monahan’s line is not producing. But IMO he’s playing a whole lot more effectively than Gaudreau given what he’s got. I know you’re enamoured with your “score off the rush” notion, but you actually have to score off the rush then. They got a fluke goal that Murray didn’t cover. Monahan is playing with a 2nd round sophomore and a 3rd year 6th round guy guy and looking not bad doing it. Plus they are miles better in their own zone. Gaudreau is playing with two high first rounders. They’d damned well better be scoring more.
I don’t even need to respond to you anymore in regards to Gaudreau if you think Milan Lucic is more dangerous offensive player than one of the highest ranked even strength scorers of his era.
You love shower Monahan with love, but as the so called “first line” center of this team, you’d think he’d be able to produce a little bit more with the the top scoring even strength winger of this team in Mangiapane. Andrew’s scoring has actually stalled since he started playing with Monahan. Monahan hasn’t raised the level of his game one bit and you would expect that from a $6M center. There’s no grey in the current situation the Flames find themselves in, you either score to help your team win or you don’t score. Also, last I checked, the current top line is barely getting scored on either, their goals for vs goals against looks pretty good to me.
It sounds more like you’re making a lot of excuses. Fact is, Gaudreau has been consistently more dangerous and consistently more productive now that he’s gotten away from Monahan. Lindholm is a better center than Monahan in every facet of the game and he’s helped get the most out of #13 which is something #23 hasn’t been able to do since 2019.
I don’t even need to respond to you anymore in regards to Gaudreau if you think Milan Lucic is more dangerous offensive player than one of the highest ranked even strength scorers of his era.
You love shower Monahan with love, but as the so called “first line” center of this team, you’d think he’d be able to produce a little bit more with the the top scoring even strength winger of this team in Mangiapane. Andrew’s scoring has actually stalled since he started playing with Monahan. Monahan hasn’t raised the level of his game one bit and you would expect that from a $6M center. There’s no grey in the current situation the Flames find themselves in, you either score to help your team win or you don’t score. Also, last I checked, the current top line is barely getting scored on either, their goals for vs goals against looks pretty good to me.
It sounds more like you’re making a lot of excuses. Fact is, Gaudreau has been consistently more dangerous and consistently more productive now that he’s gotten away from Monahan. Lindholm is a better center than Monahan in every facet of the game and he’s helped get the most out of #13 which is something #23 hasn’t been able to do since 2019.
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I don't "shower Monahan with love". I'd rather he was recast. I just think he's not a top centre but working hard to try and contribute. Gaudreau is underwhelming all over the ice except for a couple shifts a game where he tries hard. Even his assist yesterday was fluky.
Lucic was a bit of hyperbole, but at least he makes things happen.
I guarantee you Monahan is higher on Sutter's list of players he likes. He likes Lindholm too. He has issues with the other two.
Here is the 5v5 goal production of the team's forwards over that time span:
Mangiapane is tied with Lindholm in goals, but has done it in fewer minutes. Tkachuk isn't even in the conversation without powerplay or 3v3 scoring, which we're not discussing here.
I was poking around in NST and was suprised when I saw this:
Chucky leading the team in 5v5 GF/60 over the past 2 seasons, and 2nd behind only Lindy if you look at this year's numbers. His other numbers such as GF% are pretty decent too. Maybe we (myself included) have been a bit hasty to pass judgement on him this year.
I don't "shower Monahan with love". I'd rather he was recast. I just think he's not a top centre but working hard to try and contribute. Gaudreau is underwhelming all over the ice except for a couple shifts a game where he tries hard. Even his assist yesterday was fluky.
Lucic was a bit of hyperbole, but at least he makes things happen.
I guarantee you Monahan is higher on Sutter's list of players he likes. He likes Lindholm too. He has issues with the other two.
I agree Sutter like Monny for what he brings defensively, as basically a third line checking centre.
If he was a 4th round pick and making $2.5M no one would be complaining.
But it wasn't that long ago we were hoping he'd be a consistent 80 point guy, first line centre. I think those days are gone, likely due to chronic injuries.
I commend Monny for becoming what he can become. I don't think he will be moved, as there is no real market for him that would improve the Flames. And perhaps his injuries are not chronic, his offence will rebound, and he can be offensively productive again. No reason to sell at his very lowest point.
I agree Sutter like Monny for what he brings defensively, as basically a third line checking centre.
If he was a 4th round pick and making $2.5M no one would be complaining.
But it wasn't that long ago we were hoping he'd be a consistent 80 point guy, first line centre. I think those days are gone, likely due to chronic injuries.
I commend Monny for becoming what he can become. I don't think he will be moved, as there is no real market for him that would improve the Flames. And perhaps his injuries are not chronic, his offence will rebound, and he can be offensively productive again. No reason to sell at his very lowest point.
Monahan is a career 60 plus point player. And that's accounting for the last 2 terrible seasons. I don't think he's going to be a 3rd line centre.
I hope if he's injured that it is something that can be properly fixed and he comes back as a solid 2nd line centre and puts up 60 plus again.
As you said, I agree that his trade value is low and if Sutter likes him it's probably best to keep him and hope he rebounds amd finds a role.
Monahan is a career 60 plus point player. And that's accounting for the last 2 terrible seasons. I don't think he's going to be a 3rd line centre.
I hope if he's injured that it is something that can be properly fixed and he comes back as a solid 2nd line centre and puts up 60 plus again.
As you said, I agree that his trade value is low and if Sutter likes him it's probably best to keep him and hope he rebounds amd finds a role.
I’ve noticed he’s better after a break, and he’s better at the beginning of games and periods. I wonder if he needs load management. I just don’t know if they can afford to do that.
The biggest issue is our core stinks and our role players stink
And recently goaltending
They all just stink
Goaltending/defense (defensively) is the least of the Flames problem. You need to be able to score goals to win games, and Flames are incapable of doing that.
Lack of offense from the top forwards, secondary offence, and defenseman makes this team a shoe in to lose night in, night out on most occasions.
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