2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

If you look at the list I originally posted, the members of that pt/gm club pretty much had another solid dynamic point producer. Has Gaudreau?

So people point to Gaudreau and blame him ES production? Gaudreau should single handedly produce better than all those other first overall drafted players?

So you're mad at Gaudreau because over his career he was the producing at a first overall clip without help but after all those years doing it alone he dropped and it's his fault? Ok.

Respectfully I don't think you truly appreciate how good he's been nor how good he is - whenever he's been on best on best teams, he rises to the top (production) but I suppose you think he can't anymore. Ok.

Gaudreau has not been to a best-on-best tournament in five years. The last time he was there his regular centreman was a top-15 point-producer at his position.

I think it is abundantly clear that neither Gaudreau nor Monahan are the same players today as they were three, four, or five years ago.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

If you look at the list I originally posted, the members of that pt/gm club pretty much had another solid dynamic point producer. Has Gaudreau?

So people point to Gaudreau and blame him ES production? Gaudreau should single handedly produce better than all those other first overall drafted players?

So you're mad at Gaudreau because over his career he was the producing at a first overall clip without help but after all those years doing it alone he dropped and it's his fault? Ok.

Respectfully I don't think you truly appreciate how good he's been nor how good he is - whenever he's been on best on best teams, he rises to the top (production) but I suppose you think he can't anymore. Ok.

Why would Monahan not qualify?

Hell why would Lindholm not qualify?

You are creating a false narrative.

Points since the aforementioned AS break

Gaudreau 111
Tkachuk 109
Lindholm 107
Monahan 92

Its not like Gaudreau has carried this team alone....good grief.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

If you look at the list I originally posted, the members of that pt/gm club pretty much had another solid dynamic point producer. Has Gaudreau?

So people point to Gaudreau and blame him ES production? Gaudreau should single handedly produce better than all those other first overall drafted players?

So you're mad at Gaudreau because over his career he was the producing at a first overall clip without help but after all those years doing it alone he dropped and it's his fault? Ok.

Respectfully I don't think you truly appreciate how good he's been nor how good he is - whenever he's been on best on best teams, he rises to the top (production) but I suppose you think he can't anymore. Ok.

I don’t think anyone is blaming him for the mess this team is in. There is plenty to go around.

People are saying that the core of Gaudreau and Monahan is not working anymore.

When things are working, he drives this offence. Things are not working and his trade value is probably what helps fix this team. If he is untouchable then how do you make major improvements to this team?

Yes, he was an amazing pick - and would have been in any draft position but especially in the latter rounds. But that doesn’t change what probably has to be done.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Why would Monahan not qualify?

Hell why would Lindholm not qualify?

You are creating a false narrative.

Points since the aforementioned AS break

Gaudreau 111
Tkachuk 109
Lindholm 107
Monahan 92

Its not like Gaudreau has carried this team alone....good grief.

Agreed. If there was a significant differential in points fine. But Johnny hasn’t separated himself from the pack. A similar comparison could be made with nuge vs Leon and McDavid. Nuge plays with either 5 on 5 90 percent of his ice and 95 percent on the pp.

Nuge and 1 of the 2 are quite often put with ahl level talent and typically 1 player is labeled as carry the other 2. In the oiler scenario McDavid and Leon are getting double nuges points. Differential is there and nuge clearly is getting carried by the other 2

If Johnny was being dragged down by monahan because he’s terrible then Johnny would have a bigger differential in points because he does get pp time with good players and really isn’t getting it done there either

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Why would Monahan not qualify?

Hell why would Lindholm not qualify?

You are creating a false narrative.

Points since the aforementioned AS break

Gaudreau 111
Tkachuk 109
Lindholm 107
Monahan 92

Its not like Gaudreau has carried this team alone....good grief.

So you bolded the active pts/gm (career) list but then use the since AS break pts (relatively small sample)? Ok.

Look at the career pts/gm of each of your listed players...good grief.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Not necessairly at you but to all the Gaudreau detractors (and I get it, the team has not performed to expectation). However some things to consider:

it has been 10(!) years since Gaudreau was drafted in the fourth round 104th overall and IMO he is the ONLY consistent, dynamic point producer on the team. They have not been able to add a dynamic offensive even close to Gaudreau.

Is this management's fault? Here is a look at active leaders in points per game (I think going into season Gaudreau was at 0.941 pts/game):

• Rank Player Career Start PTS/G
  1. Connor McDavid 2015-16 1.370
  2. Sidney Crosby 2005-06 1.279
  3. Evgeni Malkin 2006-07 1.175
  4. Alex Ovechkin 2005-06 1.106
  5. Nikita Kucherov 2013-14 1.062
  6. Patrick Kane 2007-08 1.058
  7. Steven Stamkos 2008-09 1.031
  8. Nicklas Backstrom 2007-08 0.972
  9. Nathan MacKinnon 2013-14 0.964
  10. Ilya Kovalchuk 2001-02 0.946
  11. John Tavares 2009-10 0.938
  12. Joe Thornton 1997-98 0.915
  13. Claude Giroux 2007-08 0.914
  14. Ryan Getzlaf 2005-06 0.900

https://www.hockey-reference.com/lea...me_active.html

This list is only those with 500 career pts so Gaudreau and other younger guys will not show up.

You will notice how many of these guys were drafted 1st overall (or top 3)
Did Treliving have a chance to draft any of them? Perhaps there are younger guys not quite at 500 pts but are trending well that Treliving could've drafted or even acquired elsewhere.

Gaudreau at 104th overall has produced at a first overall clip for his career. Have these other guys on the list had some help on their roster with dynamic offensive players?

Do people understand how good Gaudreau is? I think no, you don't.

Scoring isn’t the only measure to evaluate players by. Due to his limitations, opponents have been able to shut down Gaudreau whenever the intensity of play ratchets up.

And this is a ‘what have you done for me lately’ league. Jeff Skinner scored 124 goals from 2015-2019. Now, at 28, he’s a liability. Taylor Hall scored 93 points three season ago. Since then, he’s scored at a 15 goal a season pace.

Players decline all the time in pro sports. It sucks when it happens to a player you like, but this notion that Gaudreau would play better if he had different teammates is just wishful thinking.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

So you bolded the active pts/gm (career) list but then use the since AS break pts (relatively small sample)? Ok.

Look at the career pts/gm of each of your listed players...good grief.

Im using the AS break because thats when things started to go down hill for him and Monahan.....well the whole team really.

But OK lets do since JG came in the league

JG .94

SM .79

That's the equivalent of what....12 points a year?

Yeah....massive difference.

Now since EL joined the team

JG .96
SM .82
EL .86
MT .88

Again...Johnny hasnt single handedly carried this team...ever.

[The Yen Man]

I think Johnny has the vision of a guy like Patrick Kane, but where they differ is Kane has an extra gear he taps into when the chips are down. He's also a lot more tenacious on the puck, and isn't as easily muscled off of it. That's the difference between Johnny as a really good player, and Kane as a superstar IMO.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Why would Monahan not qualify?

Hell why would Lindholm not qualify?

You are creating a false narrative.

Points since the aforementioned AS break

Gaudreau 111
Thachuk 109
Lindholm 107
Monahan 92

Its not like Gaudreau has carried this team alone....good grief.

Really it's Gaudreau & Monahan that have seen the biggest dip in production in those 141 games since the 18-19 all-star break.

Here are the Flames top 5 forwards in those 141 games.

Gaudreau - 111 (0.79 PPG)
Tkachuk - 109 (0.79 PPG)
Lindholm - 107 (0.76 PPG)
Monahan - 92 (0.68 PPG)
Backlund - 85 (0.62 PPG)

Now lets compare that to the ~140 games prior to that:

Gaudreau - 166 points (1.18 PPG)
Monahan - 134 points (0.99 PPG)
Tkachuk - 108 points (0.85 PPG)
Backlund - 77 points (0.56 PPG)
Lindholm - 58 points (1.14 PPG - only played 51 games in this time)

Tkachuk and Backlund have similar production but Gaudreau and Monahan have taken a big step back.

Gaudreau 1.18 PPG to 0.79 PPG
Monahan 0.99 PPG to 0.68 PPG

That dip is pretty substantial any way you cut it.

Gaudreau ranked 5th, and Monahan 22nd in the league in scoring in that 140 game segement from 16-17 to the 18-19 All-Star game.

In the 140 games since Gaudreau ranks 38th, and Monahan ranks 76th.

So Gaudreau and Monahan went from a pair that was a top end first line, to a pair that's more of a bottom end first line, and that's tough to overcome.

Question now is if that is just a decline from the two players, or was it because the team started to shelter them less and ask more from them defensively.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I think Johnny has the vision of a guy like Patrick Kane, but where they differ is Kane has an extra gear he taps into when the chips are down. He's also a lot more tenacious on the puck, and isn't as easily muscled off of it. That's the difference between Johnny as a really good player, and Kane as a superstar IMO.

Kane isnt afraid to take contact...... JG is playing like a scared little mouse.

Its all so strange because it was not that way for years, but now? Terrible.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Kane isnt afraid to take contact...... JG is playing like a scared little mouse.

Its all so strange because it was not that way for years, but now? Terrible.

Kane also plays better at a fast pace. Gaudreau always slows things down to try and set up plays. It’s fine sometimes, but not every time. Perfect on the power play, but not always when 5-on-5. Kane does both.

[bdubbs]

Kane also has an amazing backhand and a sneaky good low wrist shot that he gets through traffic.

[Knut]

I do know that when Gaudreau is on a different team his first game back in Calgary he will score short side top shelf from a terrible angle after missing on his last 100 attempts at it here.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

Kane also has an amazing backhand and a sneaky good low wrist shot that he gets through traffic.

Exactly what I was coming to say. Kane has a big league shot and that shot creates space for him and makes him dangerous in more ways

Johnny carries monahan in transition but monahan has a big league shot. Once they gain the zone Johnny is a perimeter player only with no ability to beat a goalie from distance

[genetic_phreek]

I wonder if we can unload Sam Bennett or Derek Ryan + David Rittich to Capitals for Hendrix Lapierre.

Capitals still uncertain with their young goalies and could use C depth. We would have to retain salary but this could be a good trade for the future. I wanted Lapierre over Zary but Tre kept trading down.

[Roof-Daddy]

Oh my. You can't really believe the Flames would be able to get a prospect like Hendrix Lapierre for Bennett, Rittich or Ryan can you?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Oh my. You can't really believe the Flames would be able to get a prospect like Hendrix Lapierre for Bennett, Rittich or Ryan can you?

It's ol Martin Erat special!

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If he is an elite player (he's not) than he should capable of elevating those around him.

I guess you don't want Eichel either. Clearly also not an elite player.

[Sandman]

I still think Johnny would benefit from a more play-driving, fast C. Maybe not on a Sutter team, though. I wonder if he’ll ever find his niche on this team now.

He’ll go to another team with a more suitable C, and he’ll be fine. I think this team will be getting bigger, meaner, and hopefully faster.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I guess you don't want Eichel either. Clearly also not an elite player.

Eichel scares me, he's a great player but hasn't elevated those around him, he has 0 playoff experience and has been mired in losing his entire professional career.

Stats wise he looks great, but if we back up the brinks truck, I bet we turn into Buffalo North. I'd rather build through the draft and see the end of this flames iteration instead of gambling on a leftover piece of rib eye.