What would you give up for Eichel?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Tkachuk:

Goals: 65
Points: 163
5V5 G: 34
5v5 Points: 87

Eichel:

Goals: 66
Points: 178
5v5 Goals: 34
5v5 Points: 90

Monahan:

Goals: 63
Points: 150
5V5 G: 34
5v5 Points: 85

Originally Posted by New Era

So these guys are all close to each other in production? Crazy stuff.

Let's try that again...

Tkachuk:
Points: 163
Games Played: 182
Points/GP = .896

Monahan:
Points: 150
Games Played: 179
Points/GP = .838

Eichel:
Points: 178
Games Played: 166
Points/GP: 1.07

And Eichel hasn't had a Johnny Gaudreau or Elias Lindholm to play with in Buffalo. He's also been playing hurt this year from what I've heard.

[Sandman]

I've said it before, in any potential trade scenario for Eichel, there should be no name in the organization that's not tradeable. We can replace anybody we trade, centers like Eichel are rare, except for teams that win lotteries.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Let's try that again...

Tkachuk:
Points: 163
Games Played: 182
Points/GP = .896

Monahan:
Points: 150
Games Played: 179
Points/GP = .838

Eichel:
Points: 178
Games Played: 166
Points/GP: 1.07

And Eichel hasn't had a Johnny Gaudreau or Elias Lindholm to play with in Buffalo. He's also been playing hurt this year from what I've heard.

Thus saith the Lord.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by dammage79

If the summer rumors are true, the Sabers GM absolutely LOVES Monahan. So if an Eichel trade was being hammered out between Buffalo and Calgary, then Momny is definitely in the requirements for Buffalo.

I'd offer Mangiapane, Kylington and Monahan and not a red cent more. Especially knowing that the Sabers GM has Monahan at the top of his list.

For that kind of love, throw in Bennett. Mange is more valuable to the Flames than anyone right now. Heck, add a first rounder on top of that if necessary.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CSharp

For that kind of love, throw in Bennett. Mange is more valuable to the Flames than anyone right now. Heck, add a first rounder on top of that if necessary.

Literally whoever or whatever they want who isn’t Gaudreau or Markstrom.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Where did you hear this rumour ? The rumours I heard that flames offered Mony up to some teams but couldn’t get what Tre thought was fair value.

Popped up when the Buffalo GM was hired. Just before the Risto for Monahan rumor .

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Let's try that again...

PPG argument

Here's the rub about the PPG argument. Some players never play a full season. Jack Eichel is one of those guys. Since his rookie year he's been forced to take games off. These are things you have to factor in with players when projecting what they are going to score and the value they bring to your team. They may score at a PPG clip, but if they only play 3/4 of the games do you receive full benefit? No, you don't. This same argument was posted about Markstrom during the summer when the debate was raging about his signing and it is a point that comes into play when considering a player and his ultimate value to the team.

The same argument can be applied to P/60. Some players get 60 minutes of ice time in three games. Some take four or five. So over the course of a season it isn't a fair comparison because some players end up on the ice and contributing more in other ways than a player who has what seems like reasonable production stats for the limited ice time they get. Players can only be judged on what the actually produce and contribute to wins and losses.

And Eichel hasn't had a Johnny Gaudreau or Elias Lindholm to play with in Buffalo. He's also been playing hurt this year from what I've heard.

This argument is getting old. Eichel has had Evander Kane, Jeff Skinner, Sam Reinhart, and most recently Taylor Hall on his line. He has not been held back by his line mates or a talent gap. No one on the Flames has had opportunity to play with a Hart Trophy winner. Shouldn't all these players see a noticeable bump in production when playing with a hockey God like Jack Eichel? And please save the injury excuses. Every player plays through injuries. Jesus, Monahan had four different surgeries at the tail end of a career year. Durability and the ability to play through injuries is an intangible that makes some players more valuable than others.

[loob job]

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl...181516797.html
So based on this...........Monahan, Zary, Pelletier and a first does it. But the ask is always a lot more than what actually happens. So Monahan, Zary or Pelletier, a first plus Kylington?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by loob job

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl...181516797.html
So based on this...........Monahan, Zary, Pelletier and a first does it. But the ask is always a lot more than what actually happens. So Monahan, Zary or Pelletier, a first plus Kylington?

One of Andersson/Hanifin/Valimaki.

No more Half measures.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by loob job

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl...181516797.html
So based on this...........Monahan, Zary, Pelletier and a first does it. But the ask is always a lot more than what actually happens. So Monahan, Zary or Pelletier, a first plus Kylington?

And you walk away from that. That is way too rich for the Flames to handle and would cripple this organization for a decade to come. The Flames are already prospect poor and giving away the best we have drafted in the past three years is going to punch an even larger hole in the team long term. Moving Pelletier and Zary means there is nothing in the pipeline to backfill the gaps that are developing as players age out. Zary should replace Backlund and Pelletier should replace Gaudreau. Remove those two and we have huge holes to fill.

This really comes down to what you think these guys will produce. Even if you think that Eichel is a PPG player, and a change of scenery my produce a bump of 10-15%, that still only puts him in the 1.2 PPG range. Given his injury history you're likely to see 65-70 games out him which means 80-90 points out of the player. Are you seriously going to give up multiple players to get that? Are you willing to give up the future that would have to support that player and surround him with the talent to reach those levels? And what about the squeeze you take if you move proven players? Say the deal is Monahan and Tkachuk for Eichel, and we maintain our prospect and draft picks base. Do you seriously move 120-130 points to get 80-90? Think that through. How do you make up that lost production?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Let's try that again...

Tkachuk:
Points: 163
Games Played: 182
Points/GP = .896

Monahan:
Points: 150
Games Played: 179
Points/GP = .838

Eichel:
Points: 178
Games Played: 166
Points/GP: 1.07

And Eichel hasn't had a Johnny Gaudreau or Elias Lindholm to play with in Buffalo. He's also been playing hurt this year from what I've heard.

Not to mention using the 18-19 season for Flames stats completely ignores the drop-off on our players and inflates their stats.

If they were still producing like 18-19, we wouldn't even be talking about any trades.

[Johnhitbox]

I actually had my first Klondike bar the other day. And it's safe to say it's worth giving up almost anything else in my freezer. I would trade my Cherry Garcia, for it.

Sent from my XQ-AT52 using Tapatalk

[Monahammer]

Monahan+Pelletier+Hanifin/Valimaki/Andersson is a great deal for us for Eichel IMO. If we could land Eichel while keeping Johnny and Tkachuk it would be a pretty big deal. I think of those I prefer to offer Andersson.

[Macman]

Is Jack Eichel even available? If he is than why is Buffalo trading him? I get they're bad and everything but isn't Eichel supposed to be a franchise player?
Would he be any better than what we have here already and would trade for?
I like his skating, I'll say that.

I wouldn't give up a second round pick either if the Flames did make a deal.

How about Rittich and Tkachuk for Eichel?
Mostly I'd stay away especially when high draft picks are involved.

[Jason14h]

Instead of giving up all these picks/spects/players for Eichel and his 10 million cap hit, why not trade Monahan for a 1st and prospect, and use his cap saving to sign RNH?

I would rather have a 1st, Prospect, Pelletier, and Anderson/Hanifin and RNH over Eichel....

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by New Era

And you walk away from that. That is way too rich for the Flames to handle and would cripple this organization for a decade to come. The Flames are already prospect poor and giving away the best we have drafted in the past three years is going to punch an even larger hole in the team long term. Moving Pelletier and Zary means there is nothing in the pipeline to backfill the gaps that are developing as players age out. Zary should replace Backlund and Pelletier should replace Gaudreau. Remove those two and we have huge holes to fill.

This really comes down to what you think these guys will produce. Even if you think that Eichel is a PPG player, and a change of scenery my produce a bump of 10-15%, that still only puts him in the 1.2 PPG range. Given his injury history you're likely to see 65-70 games out him which means 80-90 points out of the player. Are you seriously going to give up multiple players to get that? Are you willing to give up the future that would have to support that player and surround him with the talent to reach those levels? And what about the squeeze you take if you move proven players? Say the deal is Monahan and Tkachuk for Eichel, and we maintain our prospect and draft picks base. Do you seriously move 120-130 points to get 80-90? Think that through. How do you make up that lost production?

You find a way, because without a player like Jack Eichel at the top of your lineup, you will not win the trophy, because other teams have players like Jack Eichel.

If we traded all those futures and got Eichel, we should be trading more futures to get veteran help. Veteran players don’t want to play with rookies. Sidney Crosby doesn’t want a bunch of 20 year olds on his wing.

Veteran star players want to play with people who know what they’re doing.

So we trade Monahan, Tkachuk, Zary, and Pelletier. That means we still have Gaudreau. It means we still have Lindholm.

Kylington? They won’t even play him now, why wouldn’t we give him up for Jack Eichel.

Who couldn’t we replace at a nominal cost, once we have a #1C locked up for 5 years?

If we have Eichel for 5 years, our odds of keeping Gaudreau shoot way up. Gaudreau is no longer asked to be the best player on the team, and someone suited to the role can have it.

In any of these major packages, I suspect Buffalo also sends Hall as a salary dump - so we don’t even lose anything in the short term, and we can free up $8m in cap space in three months if we want to. Or we keep Hall.

I’ll say again, there’s no cost too high to get a player like this. What sets the franchise back a decade is not giving up the extra pieces for MacKinnon or Barkov or Thornton or Eichel when you have the chance.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Literally whoever or whatever they want who isn’t Gaudreau or Markstrom.

My original reply was about Mony. If Sabre's GM absolutely want Monahan, so be it. It's kind of weird that the Sabre's ownership and GM were so devastated in getting Eichel as a consolation prize on the McDavid sweepstakes. The looks on their faces pretty much showed the whole world that they were dead set on getting McDavid on that day. If that was the Flames getting Eichel on that day, I'm sure everyone would be more than thrilled.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Instead of giving up all these picks/spects/players for Eichel and his 10 million cap hit, why not trade Monahan for a 1st and prospect, and use his cap saving to sign RNH?

I would rather have a 1st, Prospect, Pelletier, and Anderson/Hanifin and RNH over Eichel....

RNH moves the needle as much Monahan. Go for an actual topline center or completely re-tool.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Instead of giving up all these picks/spects/players for Eichel and his 10 million cap hit, why not trade Monahan for a 1st and prospect, and use his cap saving to sign RNH?

I would rather have a 1st, Prospect, Pelletier, and Anderson/Hanifin and RNH over Eichel....

Really? Why?

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Bonded

RNH moves the needle as much Monahan. Go for an actual topline center or completely re-tool.

can you imagine RNH and Gaudreau on the same line? you'd see some sad numbers out of those two.
and why would you pay RNH 6-7M per year, which is probably what it would take for him to leave Edmonton for Calgary.

I like the guy, and only want him on the Oilers if it's for less than 6M per.