What would you give up for Eichel?

[Goriders]

Monahan and gaudreau

[Vinny01]

I was willing to give up Monahan+Gaudreau+ in the offseason but now I am just not sure the Flames have the assets or make any sense as the team trading for Eichel?

[SuperMatt18]

Seguin, Duchene, and ROR (the first times) remain the comparables.

Seguin for Eriksson, Reilly Smith, Joe Morrow

ROR for Zadorov, Compher, Grigorenko, 2nd Round Pick

Duchene for Turris, Shane Bowers, Andrew Hammond, 1st, 3rd

The Duchene trade was considered a great return, Seguin and ROR were considered steals, so closer to the Duchene value makes sense.

So in a deal like this you are looking at 3-4 pieces.

If I am the Flames I'm offering.

Monahan
One of Zary, Pelletier, or Dube
2021 1st
2022 2nd (Upgraded to 2022 1st if Flames make conference finals in 2021 or 2022)

Giving up that much makes me a little uncomfortable, which probably means it in about the right range.

Also I'd be willing to move Tkachuk, but the rest of the package would be a smaller in that scenario.

Tkachuk
2021 1st
2022 2nd

Tkachuk is actually 1 year younger than Eichel. And production is similar over the last three seasons., both having a down year this season. Flames add since Eichel plays the premium position. This actually feels like too much but I'd be okay with the Flames overpaying to shake things up. In some ways building something around Tkachuk and Eichel is like the Laine/Dubois trade on steroids.

The production for all three of these guys is close the last three seasons though:

Tkachuk:

Goals: 65
Points: 163
5V5 G: 34
5v5 Points: 87

Eichel:

Goals: 66
Points: 178
5v5 Goals: 34
5v5 Points: 90

Monahan:

Goals: 63
Points: 150
5V5 G: 34
5v5 Points: 85

[FanIn80]

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The first one, you could see Monny in a good place, stick on the ice giving Johnny a target. Backhand sauce by Johnny missed by a bit for sure, not great, and Monny couldn’t knock it down

The second one I recall watching and thought Mikheyev got a stick on it. Tough to tell from the replay

My point remains - people focus on the wrong end of the ice when they try to predict what Sutter is looking for. The reason Dube got demoted wasn’t his play in the offensive zone - it was a sloppy play in the D zone. Monahan has, to my eye anyway, been doing a good job in the D zone, against the Matthews line much of the time in the last two games. That’s what Sutter looks at. He figures the team will score 2-3 goals in any event. He wants effort and execution in the D zone, and smart non-risky plays in the offensive zone.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

IMO I give up Matty or gaudreau as the main centrepiece since their cost certainty beyond their contracts is minimal as to where they end up signing their next big contracts.

But a line of JG - JE - Monny is incredibly appealing.

So a deal like Matty plus a 1st in this draft and a 2nd next year or the year after.

Matty and someone else would have to go for contract balance.

What about Rittich and Matty plus a second this year or a first this year for JE and roll with domingue as back up?

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

My point remains - people focus on the wrong end of the ice when they try to predict what Sutter is looking for. The reason Dube got demoted wasn’t his play in the offensive zone - it was a sloppy play in the D zone. Monahan has, to my eye anyway, been doing a good job in the D zone, against the Matthews line much of the time in the last two games. That’s what Sutter looks at. He figures the team will score 2-3 goals in any event. He wants effort and execution in the D zone, and smart non-risky plays in the offensive zone.

That's what Sutter also looks at. Monahan is the team's top line C. He needs to score and set up others to score while not being a negative player.

He isn't doing that.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

That’s a decent offer for sure. But “leadership”?

I think Calgary’s biggest problem is their complete lack of leadership on the ice. I don’t think Monny has any leadership qualities. Tkachuk might eventually. But it’s hard for us outsiders to really know.

I expect t that the player that Buffalo would insist be part of the package is Lindholm. Based on his contract and skills.


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You’re right, of course - they’re part of a leadership group that hasn’t taken the next step.

But.

Monahan and Tkachuk both wear letters, and have for years - they’ve made the playoffs three times together.

The Sabres could use more players like them, at least they know what it takes to make it to the post-season.

Okposo, Skinner, Reinhart, Evander Kane at the time, nobody the Sabres ever bring in has any playoff experience whatsoever.

And if they want Lindholm, certainly, I swap him and Monahan to get the deal
done.

[Red]

This leadership talk reminds me how we were laughing at the Oilers giving kids letters and leadership duties without any real veteran guidance.

In retrospect, maybe giving guys like Monahan and Tkachuk letters was a mistake? Who did they have around to learn from? Looks like the kids were given the keys to the bus.

[CroFlames]

Buffalo probably doesn't even pick up the phone if the deal doesn't include Monahan. They need a centerman if they trade away their top centerman.

If you do that, then I feel you MUST extend Johnny, otherwise it was a waste of assets to acquire Eichel.

Eric Francis guaranteed Johnny is going to walk on a broadcast a couple weeks ago, and on the radio... so I think we have an excellent chance of extending him.

You can then move Bennett, and you may be able to recoup a 2nd that you are likely giving up in the Eichel trade.

I'm not in love with Eichel, but I also feel the core needs a shakeup, so give'r.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

This leadership talk reminds me how we were laughing at the Oilers giving kids letters and leadership duties without any real veteran guidance.

In retrospect, maybe giving guys like Monahan and Tkachuk letters was a mistake? Who did they have around to learn from? Looks like the kids were given the keys to the bus.

I think it’s no big deal to give an A to a likely kid. A C is different. But more than that, I’m not sure letters really matter as much as character in the room and on the ice generally. Lucic and Tanev seem like leaders. Gio has led by example - the problem is his body won’t let him as much any more. But you do need leadership on ice from your better players. I don’t know about in the room, but IMO none of the top 4 forwards show much leadership on the ice.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Red

This leadership talk reminds me how we were laughing at the Oilers giving kids letters and leadership duties without any real veteran guidance.

In retrospect, maybe giving guys like Monahan and Tkachuk letters was a mistake? Who did they have around to learn from? Looks like the kids were given the keys to the bus.

Gio, Engelland, Russell, Wideman, Backlund, Hudler, Jagr for a minute - I don’t think they were left to fend for themselves, I think it’s as simple as they’re not quite as good as we hoped.

It doesn’t mean they aren’t high quality players - everyone we’re discussing is a fantastic player.

But none of them are franchise cornerstones, and Eichel is.

It’s nothing personal.

And I do think Eichel is the type that has that “take it personally” psycho vibe that you need to succeed at elite athletics, which is another reason I want him. I don’t think our guys take nearly enough personally.

He just plays in Buffalo, in a sport where it’s easier to contain a single individual than any sport but baseball.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The production for all three of these guys is close the last three seasons though:

Tkachuk:

Goals: 65
Points: 163
5V5 G: 34
5v5 Points: 87

Eichel:

Goals: 66
Points: 178
5v5 Goals: 34
5v5 Points: 90

Monahan:

Goals: 63
Points: 150
5V5 G: 34
5v5 Points: 85

So these guys are all close to each other in production? Crazy stuff.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Andersson is already a solid 2nd pairing d-man with all-around abilities, and has potential to grow into a top pairing role. Not to mention he's locked into a long-term deal that is more than reasonable for what he does.

He's hardly a "spare part", and those are the types of players that are tough to part with which would make a deal like this work. Monahan still scores plenty of goals and can off-set the loss of Eichel at the center position. Add in a 1st round pick for any perceived disparity in value. No issues with cap management for either team as you have about $10 million going both ways.

I put a lot of thought into that proposal. Not sure I got much real thought from your response. Suggest something better that would actually be a reasonable and feasible deal.

If Eichel became available on the market place you can bet that almost every team would be inquiring about the cost to acquire. Buffalo has missed the playoffs for the last 10 years, I don't think they would be interested in draft picks. It's going to have to be players that Buffalo feels will move them in the right direction, not sure if Monahan and Andersson fit that bill for them. They are giving up their best player, a young first line centre with huge potential, and as already proven himself to a certain degree, they will want meaningful players back. It likely starts with Tkachuk and more.

To Buffalo: Tkachuk, Lindholm
To Calgary Eichel, 2 2nd round draft picks.

???? Eichel ,Dube
Gaudreau Monahan, Ritchie
Lucic Backlund Mangiapane
Leivo Ryan, Dube

Anyways that's what I would do, our winger depth takes a big hit, but a top 6 forward is not that difficult to get, at least not nearly as difficult as a legit top line centre, we do have Pelletier and zary in the minors as well, and Dude and Mangiapane showing lots of promise

[dammage79]

If the summer rumors are true, the Sabers GM absolutely LOVES Monahan. So if an Eichel trade was being hammered out between Buffalo and Calgary, then Momny is definitely in the requirements for Buffalo.

I'd offer Mangiapane, Kylington and Monahan and not a red cent more. Especially knowing that the Sabers GM has Monahan at the top of his list.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by dammage79

If the summer rumors are true, the Sabers GM absolutely LOVES Monahan. So if an Eichel trade was being hammered out between Buffalo and Calgary, then Momny is definitely in the requirements for Buffalo.

I'd offer Mangiapane, Kylington and Monahan and not a red cent more. Especially knowing that the Sabers GM has Monahan at the top of his list.

If that's all we need to give up, somebody needs to "start the car"....

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[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'd offer Mangiapane, Kylington and Monahan and not a red cent more.

Do you really think that a least one team wouldn’t be able to top that?


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[GreenLantern2814]

I’ll say this - we’re not acquiring Eichel to not play him with Gaudreau.

[GreenLantern2814]

I’ll raise the offer even further.

Lindholm
Tkachuk
1st this year
Valimaki

There is no cost too high to acquire a player like Jack Eichel.

A competently run organization with a player like Eichel, solid goaltending and a coach like Darryl is a contender every year.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by dammage79

If the summer rumors are true, the Sabers GM absolutely LOVES Monahan. So if an Eichel trade was being hammered out between Buffalo and Calgary, then Momny is definitely in the requirements for Buffalo.

I'd offer Mangiapane, Kylington and Monahan and not a red cent more. Especially knowing that the Sabers GM has Monahan at the top of his list.

Where did you hear this rumour ? The rumours I heard that flames offered Mony up to some teams but couldn’t get what Tre thought was fair value.