[PGT] Flames Lose 2-0 to Leafs

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I checked briefly on natural stat trick. The flames aren’t appreciably better or worse than most teams with their amount of shots for at shooting wide.

Just looked at FF minus SF and that counts misses.

Also, I think the top 6 Ritchie experiment can be wrapped up, that’s not working. Get Lindholm back into the gato gang and get the top 6 rolling again.

So what it says is that they're mediocre right now. I thought they would've been bottom 10.

[simonarea]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

#freematthewphillips

I like him but we can’t go any smaller than this current line up. Unless we get rid of Ryan (I know there are Ryan lovers here but he is overpaid, old, too small... good speed but we need a great speedster , or mangiapane(his playing style is aggressive however his hardware can’t match his style ... he gets knocked off the puck too many times)

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by simonarea

I like him but we can’t go any smaller than this current line up. Unless we get rid of Ryan (I know there are Ryan lovers here but he is overpaid, old, too small... good speed but we need a great speedster , or mangiapane(his playing style is aggressive however his hardware can’t match his style ... he gets knocked off the puck too many times)

That’s like most of the team!

[taxbuster]

Well that sucked. Flames looked gassed from the opening puck drop. Not going to win many games if that's true. Makes me question their conditioning. Also makes me question the GAF meter on the top two lines. Way too many lazy plays still. And the bottom two lines just aren't going to win you games.

It seems that twice now Flames have come up big for a game....and fallen totally flat the next one. This is good info for DS. What he's going to do about it? Beats me.

[bigpete]

An Iginla in his prime would look good on this team right now. That's what we need. Are there any of those lying around?

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by bigpete

An Iginla in his prime would look good on this team right now. That's what we need. Are there any of those lying around?

32 teams are looking for an Iginla.

[blender]

I was more disappointed in the lack of entertainment value than the loss.

Best take Ottawa seriously and get the 4 points.

[sa226]

I honestly think that there have been more tweaks and adjustments to system and style than they immediately let on.

My optimistic side thinks they're in an adjustment period, taking a bit too much time to make sure they're in the right spot and doing the right thing. Once that becomes second nature, I think we'll see some good things happen. Problem is that Sutter mentioned the maturity of this group needs some work. That's a problem in a shortened season.

The positives for me is that the structurel ooks way better. Just plain old positioning has cleaned up at of the glaring issues. But the execution is way off where it needs to be. Sure, they are playing way better positionally, but if your 5v5 offense is as effective as a pop gun, and your powerplay is abysmal, you're not going to win too many games.

I do actually see some progress, but if they have any aspirations for this season, they're running out of time.

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[868904]

Frustrating game to watch, but also shows you how important it is for the team to buy in to the system and structure play. The Leafs have more high end talent and skill but it wasn't the skill that beat the Flames, it was the structure and system. While the Leafs are struggling right now, you can tell they are still playing to their structure. That's where the Flames need to get to and as Darryl says, that's going to be a work in progress.

Flames had trouble gaining the zone and moving through the neutral zone, that's not all on a lack of talent, that's the Leafs. The Leafs shut down McDavid and Draisatl so stopping the Flames should have been a walk in the park.

A few bounces the other way and the Flames could have got an extra point or stolen 2. While they were outplayed both games, it wasn't as bad as the last time they were in Toronto and Rittich stole them 3 points.

If you consider the Leafs and Oilers as the class of the division, well the Flames split these 4 games with them and they aren't near where Darryl wants them to be yet. So that's an optimistic view of things.

How the Flames fare against the Sens in the upcoming two games will tell us if they have righted the ship at least in the proper direction. They have to win both games and convincingly and they have to win the series against the Jets.

Can't really lose out on any points against the Sens, Habs and Canucks from here on out, especially since it looks like they will have a hard time sweeping any series against the top 3 teams.

[btimbit]

More upset that they couldn't even score one than the fact that they lost

[868904]

Originally Posted by sa226

The positives for me is that the structurel ooks way better. Just plain old positioning has cleaned up at of the glaring issues. But the execution is way off where it needs to be. Sure, they are playing way better positionally, but if your 5v5 offense is as effective as a pop gun, and your powerplay is abysmal, you're not going to win too many games.

I do actually see some progress, but if they have any aspirations for this season, they're running out of time.

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These are on the skill guys and its' clear to me that Darryl is trying his best to manage the confidence of Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk, etc. He knows they need a firm hand but also can't just rip them too harshly because confidence is the big thing with these guys.

It's really a shame that our young stars have been subjected to terrible coaching through the most important years of the career and only now are receiving the proper coach and mentor. You hope it's not too late for Johnny and Mony.

[ComixZone]

Do any of us believe that this team can actually win with Monahan and Gaudreau playing the roles they do/accounting for as much of the cap as they do?

I just...don’t. I don’t think they can elevate beyond what they’ve shown thus far in their careers, and I even say that while liking both players a good deal. I just don’t think they can get it done.

(I have similar thoughts towards Backlund and Giordano)

[shadowlord]

With the Johnny-Mony-Ritchie line essentially MIA, how are we feeling about the Tkachuk-Lindholm-Dube line?

Although it's become our de-facto top line, but I'm not sure it's a great top-line for a playoff team. There might be better options that involve breaking up Lindholm and Tkachuk. That line seems to provide some sustained offensive pressure at times, but I don't feel like they are a dangerous scoring threat in recent games.

The Lucic-Backlund-Mangiapane line is seems quite effective at cycling the puck leading to a scoring chance as was last year's Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane line. In fact, I'd propose that last year's Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane line is a much more deadly top-line than Tkachuk-Lindholm-Dube, although they were playing as a second line last year.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Do any of us believe that this team can actually win with Monahan and Gaudreau playing the roles they do/accounting for as much of the cap as they do?

I just...don’t. I don’t think they can elevate beyond what they’ve shown thus far in their careers, and I even say that while liking both players a good deal. I just don’t think they can get it done.

(I have similar thoughts towards Backlund and Giordano)

The cap hit isn't the problem, they're paid fairly for what they bring.

Problem is neither of them are the elite guy that we need them to be. Both are fantastic secondary pieces. Trouble is, that's all we have, is fantastic secondary pieces.

And I have no answer to this question. The only proven way to get the piece we need is via lottery balls.

If I'm Treliving I go hard after Eichel

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by btimbit

The cap hit isn't the problem, they're paid fairly for what they bring.

Problem is neither of them are the elite guy that we need them to be. Both are fantastic secondary pieces. Trouble is, that's all we have, is fantastic secondary pieces.

And I have no answer to this question. The only proven way to get the piece we need is via lottery balls.

If I'm Treliving I go hard after Eichel

I don’t believe Monahan is even a fantastic secondary piece at this stage. He has been an outright bad even strength player for over two full calendar years.

Yeah, Eichel needs to be the target if this team wants to actually win.

[Manhattanboy]

The decline of Monahan and Gaudreau has been nothing short of spectacular.

During the 2015 playoffs, and even after the loss to Anaheim I remember thinking we could win a cup with these guys.

JG was amazing. Remember the home game against Anaheim where he tied it with the goalie pulled and Backlund scored in OT?

That was almost five years ago. Look where we are now.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

True but their opponent tonight plays 2 games in 11 days

Why does the number of off days the Leafs have after playing Calgary matter?

True Toronto had 4 off days before playing Calgary in back to back games. You make it sound like they had 9 off days.


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[heep223]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

The decline of Monahan and Gaudreau has been nothing short of spectacular.

During the 2015 playoffs, and even after the loss to Anaheim I remember thinking we could win a cup with these guys.

JG was amazing. Remember the home game against Anaheim where he tied it with the goalie pulled and Backlund scored in OT?

That was almost five years ago. Look where we are now.

I was at that game. The dome was ####ing going ape#### when Johnny tied it. Went shelf too. I couldn’t hear myself think I’m surprised the building didn’t collapse it was actually shaking. What a great memory.

[camm13]

^ I was at that game too. And I've never felt that level of excitement in my life, mix that with 19,000 + other screaming fans. I remember every one leaving that game, still chanting GFG. Still gives me chills to think about.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Well that sucked. Flames looked gassed from the opening puck drop. Not going to win many games if that's true. Makes me question their conditioning. Also makes me question the GAF meter on the top two lines. Way too many lazy plays still. And the bottom two lines just aren't going to win you games.

It seems that twice now Flames have come up big for a game....and fallen totally flat the next one. This is good info for DS. What he's going to do about it? Beats me.

Probably compile a list of whos off the boat and traded. I dont suspect this team will really hit its stride until next season assuming teams are willing to make some deals with us.