[PGT] Flames lose 7-3 to Edmonton...

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Whenever Monahan and Gaudreau have slumped in the past and split up, Monahan has always played well. In fact he has did great. He has always been placed back with Gaudreau directly afterwards to get Gaudreau going

To say Monahan need Gaudreau is just ignoring what has happened in the past when both players have been placed on different lines

....

In the 253 minutes Monahan has played at 5v5 without Gaudreau since the start of 2018-19, the Flames have been outscored 20 to 6. When Johnny has played without Monahan, the Flames have outscored their opponents 19 to 16.

When Monahan has played without Gaudreau, the Flames have generated a meagre 43.68% of the expected goals. When Gaudreau plays with Monahan, the Flames generate 51.56% of them. When Gaudreau is moved away from Monahan, that figure rises to 56.13%. (These figures are all from Natural Stat Trick).

The numbers don't back that up at all.

[Erick Estrada]

One of the biggest issues the Flames have is that if Gaudreau leaves via free agency or is traded that they will be left with Monahan who is basically useless without Gaudreau on his wing.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

....



The numbers don't back that up at all.

If all you do is look for numbers that support your narrative then you will always find them. Why don’t you post their actual stats of how they have produced

Sorry, you need to watch the games as stats can be used many ways to support any vision you want to see

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

One of the biggest issues the Flames have is that if Gaudreau leaves via free agency or is traded that they will be left with Monahan who is basically useless without Gaudreau on his wing.

You either start trading away 1sts to compete now, or accumulate 1sts and begin yet another rebuild and hope you land a franchise guy.

Crappy either way since you solved goaltending and coaching. Feels like we don't have the horses needed to win right now.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by New Era

I have zero doubt Phillips lacks NHL size. I am also very skeptical his skill translates to the NHL. If he were NHL talent he would be in the NHL and the team would not have loaded up on known quantities, as limited as they were. They would have rolled the dice on Phillips, Gawdin, and Ruzicka. Obviously the team does not see the upside in bringing in a tiny player on a team that is already small by NHL standards. You can gush all over his play in a very limited AHL season, but that does not mean he is prepared or capable of playing in the NHL. The jump between the AHL and NHL is so great it is hard for people to comprehend.

These are all assumptions, though. Sure, they all stand a chance of coming true... but there's currently nobody at the AHL level who's outplaying Phillips. He's the best player on the Heat by a decent margin.

"If he were NHL talent he would be in the NHL"... Mangiapane wasn't in the NHL for a while. Same with Dube. They got their chances... and Phillips has produced at the same, terrific rate (and not only in this "very limited AHL season").

He deserves a shot, but he may never get one with this team—and I think it'd be a crying shame.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

If all you do is look for numbers that support your narrative then you will always find them. Why don’t you post their actual stats of how they have produced

Sorry, you need to watch the games as stats can be used many ways to support any vision you want to see

I... did. The Flames get horribly outplayed whenever Monahan plays without Gaudreau and have been outscored 20 to 6 in those scenarios over the last three years. That's not me cherry-picking anything. That's literally just goals.

And come on, man, I watch every game.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

If all you do is look for numbers that support your narrative then you will always find them. Why don’t you post their actual stats of how they have produced

Sorry, you need to watch the games as stats can be used many ways to support any vision you want to see

Hid did his part with stats the support his opinion, what do you have to support your narrative? The stats clearly don't back you up and please don't tell me you are going to rely on the eye test with Monahan.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

These are all assumptions, though. Sure, they all stand a chance of coming true... but there's currently nobody at the AHL level who's outplaying Phillips. He's the best player on the Heat by a decent margin.

"If he were NHL talent he would be in the NHL"... Mangiapane wasn't in the NHL for a while. So was Dube. They got their chances... and Phillips has produced at the same, terrific rate (and not only in this "very limited AHL season").

He deserves a shot, but he may never get one with this team—and I think it'd be a crying shame.

The guy is tiny. He's not better than Johnny skill-wise, and Johnny routinely is getting beat in battles in the NHL. Phillips has no chance to be a regular in the NHL IMO.

There's always been guys who dominate the AHL, but just can't get the hang of it in the NHL. We call them tweeners. Kris Kolanos had every tool needed to be an NHLer, yet just could never cut it. Phillips is, at best, a tweener. His shooting % is almost 30%. Lots of smoke and mirrors IMO.

[ResAlien]

The old MissKat “do you even watch hockey?” gambit. It’s a bold play Cotton, let’s see if it works out for him.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The guy is tiny. He's not better than Johnny skill-wise, and Johnny routinely is getting beat in battles in the NHL. Phillips has no chance to be a regular in the NHL IMO.

There's always been guys who dominate the AHL, but just can't get the hang of it in the NHL. We call them tweeners. Kris Kolanos had every tool needed to be an NHLer, yet just could never cut it. Phillips is, at best, a tweener.

Yeah I know what a tweener is. I find it really disingenuous to qualify him as that before he's played a single NHL game. Kolanos got 151 NHL chances.

Phillips is ridiculously talented and I think could easily make many of the same impacts that Mangiapane makes. Expecting him to come in and be a Johnny clone is unreasonable. But he's the best distributor on the team by a mile and he doesn't shy away from anyone.

He's 22. Very, very early to be speaking in steadfastly negative terms about anybody, particularly as this league continues to shift smaller.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

One of the biggest issues the Flames have is that if Gaudreau leaves via free agency or is traded that they will be left with Monahan who is basically useless without Gaudreau on his wing.

All this talk about Monahan and Gaudreau.

Tkachuk is the highest paid Flame and has been MIA for a very long time.

All the praise that Lindholm is getting, but yet Tkachuk has been so bad that he still manages to negate all the good that Lindholm has been doing.

The Flames have many issues, but I think the largest one is Tkachuk's play and his contact.

[direwolf]

I'm not putting too much stock into what happened last night, especially after they looked so good in the previous three games. They had a bad start, then recovered pretty well and played great in the 2nd. But when the wheels fell off in the 3rd with all those Oiler PPs, they just couldn't get it back on track after that. Markstrom had a bad night as well, and it seemed like every puck directed at the net went in. Just one of those nights.

As Darryl said in his post-game presser, this is a work in progress. This team was never going to magically turn things around overnight and instantly become a playoff team just because Sutter is suddenly behind the bench. It's gonna take time to iron out the bad habits, they're gonna make mistakes occasionally, and they're certainly not going to run the table.

Also, let's never forget that the Oilers are still a terrible one line team, and we all know what happens when they play against actual playoff-caliber competition. Catching them is still a possibility IMO, as they have a tougher schedule going forward.

[ResAlien]

Plus side it’s just one and game out of four so we’re on pace to be at least 75% better than we were before Sutter. And now that Sutter is here we can plan on earning 100% of the points 75% of the time. The other 25% of the time we can bank on earning 50% of the points and that’s 125% of the points.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Yeah I know what a tweener is. I find it really disingenuous to qualify him as that before he's played a single NHL game. Kolanos got 151 NHL chances.

Phillips is ridiculously talented and I think could easily make many of the same impacts that Mangiapane makes. Expecting him to come in and be a Johnny clone is unreasonable. But he's the best distributor on the team by a mile and he doesn't shy away from anyone.

He's 22. Very, very early to be speaking in steadfastly negative terms about anybody, particularly as this league continues to shift smaller.

Mangipane is a badger on the ice, and considerably bigger. Phillips plays an entirely different game - a skill game - and so his only chance at the NHL is to be what Johnny is and I don't think his skill is high enough to overcome his tiny frame.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

All this talk about Monahan and Gaudreau.

Tkachuk is the highest paid Flame and has been MIA for a very long time.

All the praise that Lindholm is getting, but yet Tkachuk has been so bad that he still manages to negate all the good that Lindholm has been doing.

The Flames have many issues, but I think the largest one is Tkachuk's play and his contact.

Given the timeline of the new arena I feel this is probably the time the organization should start a rebuild. Now that Gio is winding down and this core is one or two offseasons from being dismantled regardless of the GM's intentions it's probably time to start selling off assets and rebuilding. I just don't see anything here that points to the team getting better than where they were at a few seasons ago as they have clearly declined.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yeah, Darryl Sutter signed on for a rebuild

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Yeah I know what a tweener is. I find it really disingenuous to qualify him as that before he's played a single NHL game. Kolanos got 151 NHL chances.

Phillips is ridiculously talented and I think could easily make many of the same impacts that Mangiapane makes. Expecting him to come in and be a Johnny clone is unreasonable. But he's the best distributor on the team by a mile and he doesn't shy away from anyone.

He's 22. Very, very early to be speaking in steadfastly negative terms about anybody, particularly as this league continues to shift smaller.

Who do you take out of the lineup to get Phillips into the game? Remember the roles that players are assigned. You can't randomly identify someone and say Phillips in for Nordstrom, failing to recognize their roles are dramatically different and responsibilities in different areas of the game. You put Phillips into the game who comes out?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

I have zero doubt Phillips lacks NHL size. I am also very skeptical his skill translates to the NHL. If he were NHL talent he would be in the NHL and the team would not have loaded up on known quantities, as limited as they were...

That is a pretty convenient post-hoc read on the situation. In fact, the Flames could not really have started the season with Phillips on the roster: He lost a lot of time on IR last season, and in the last few weeks coming back before the cancelation in March he did not look quite right. Before Flames training camp Phillips had played only a handful of middling games in a calendar year; there is no way the Flames were going to start him in the NHL after only an abbreviated training camp, and this had almost nothing to do with whether or not he is an NHL talent.


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by New Era

Who do you take out of the lineup to get Phillips into the game? Remember the roles that players are assigned. You can't randomly identify someone and say Phillips in for Nordstrom, failing to recognize their roles are dramatically different and responsibilities in different areas of the game. You put Phillips into the game who comes out?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah, Darryl Sutter signed on for a rebuild

I think he's getting it regardless and he's smart enough to know what he got himself into as he knows the contract situations and that changes will have to come. Gaudreau isn't going to be a Flame long term and Tkachuk also isn't likely to be.