Flames fire Geoff Ward, hire Darryl Sutter, signs 3 year deal

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

There's some obvious merit to the idea that Giordano's age-related decline has impacted the team's success this year.

But if we're talking about the past few years in general?

No, the Flames' lack of success is an outlier relative to their puck possession metrics.

From 2017 to 2019, the Flames posted a CF% of 52.65%, which was good for fifth best in the NHL over that time. Nine teams total posted a shot attempt % of 51.50% or greater. Of these teams:

- The Boston Bruins were in the 2019 Stanley Cup Final

- The Carolina Hurricanes were in the 2019 Eastern Conference Final after a coaching change (removing the coach Calgary added, ironically)

- The Vegas Golden Knights were in the 2018 Stanley Cup Final

- The San Jose Sharks were in the 2018 Western Conference Finals

- The Calgary Flames won one out of nine postseason games played

- The Nashville Predators were in the 2017 Stanley Cup Final

- The Tampa Bay Lightning were in the 2018 Eastern Conference Final and also happen to be the 2020 Stanley Cup champions

- The St. Louis Blues were the 2019 Stanley Cup Champion

- The Montreal Canadiens were a clear outlier, making the playoffs once, and missing once with 96 pts (which would have made the playoffs in the West, BTW)

If you're making the argument that the Canadiens and Flames had comparable rosters over this 3-year span, then I'm open to debate.

If you agree that the Flames' roster was more skilled over that period than the Canadiens, then you would need to admit that the Flames underperformed relative to each of the seven other teams to post similarly strong puck possession metrics.

Ok, so you’ve demonstrated that this team is good at out shooting other teams. That’s great. But that doesn’t mean that they can capitalize or execute to the same degree as the other teams you’ve mentioned. It also doesn’t explain some of the struggles this organization has had in regards to its goaltending over the timeline you listed.

I mean, the objective of hockey is pretty simple no? Just outscore your opponent. Done, you win. But when you’re struggling to score at times and your goaltenders are having trouble making saves the other times, I don’t know how much I like your chances of winning.

The problem I see in terms of the Flames’ struggles to score is that they seem to need a lot of chances just to bury the occasional goal. They also miss the net too much for my liking and they’re also wildly inconsistent to boot.

They were absolutely dreadful in 17-18, one of the worst in the league. Then the next season they were one of the best. Both seasons were probably outliers though, they weren’t as bad as their ranking suggested in 17-18 and they weren’t as good as their ranking suggested in 18-19. Maybe somewhere in the middle is fair?

Similar situation in the 19-20 season, started off as one of the worst scoring teams in the NHL, then caught absolute fire down the stretch scoring roughly 4 goals per game and looked like one of the top goal scoring teams to finish the season. Once again, probably somewhere in the middle.

In terms of their goals allowed category, they’re a little more consistent then the goal scoring department, but their their rankings of 17th, 17th, 9th, 18th and 14th would also indicate that they’re smack dab in the middle.

The pattern displayed here is that this team is as Jekyll and Hyde as their record, coaching history and period to period consistency would indicate. World beaters at times, complete trash the other times. The actual reasons for this seem to be many, but make no mistake, the elite teams of this league generally do not exhibit the Flames’ current patterns.

I think 4-5 years is a large enough sample size to determine what this team is and what they’re not don’t you think? To me, they’re not an elite team, they’re in the middle, just like their record and level of success would indicate; at least in terms of what actually determines the outcomes of hockey games. If this team looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then they’re likely a duck. The Calgary Flames are a duck (middle).

[GioforPM]

“If you're making the argument that the Canadiens and Flames had comparable rosters over this 3-year span, then I'm open to debate.”

They aren’t that dissimilar. And they are more similar to each other than any other team in the list except maybe Vegas. Personnel wise I’d argue that those 3 are at the bottom of the list of those teams.

[Boreal]

I think Darryl deeply understands and utilizes the analytics that tell me about puck possession, zone time, and shot volume.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Bill Belichick is 68. Gregg Popovich is 72.

Coaching doesn't need to be a young man's game. Darryl's got a ton of miles left.

Geoff Ward is 59!

[EVERLAST]

Wow...just watched Kypreos and Maclean on Nick's podcast.

They claim Tre was giving ward his rosters and Ward wasn't allowed any input.

They then say Darryl won't make that much of a difference for too long.

2.idiots .

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Wow...just watched Kypreos and Maclean on Nick's podcast.

They claim Tre was giving ward his rosters and Ward wasn't allowed any input.

They then say Darryl won't make that much of a difference for too long.

2.idiots .

Those are some pretty crazy allegations to be making. What did they say they had for sources? I would expect something like that would eventually get out to more than just those guys.

If it is the case that's what took place, it's pretty damning for Treliving. But, I would not believe for a second that Sutter would have agreed to come back under those circumstances or that he would put up with it while he's coach.

[csnarpy]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Wow...just watched Kypreos and Maclean on Nick's podcast.

They claim Tre was giving ward his rosters and Ward wasn't allowed any input.

They then say Darryl won't make that much of a difference for too long.

2.idiots .

Not a chance Sutter comes in with those restrictions. He probably demanded full control of coaching, who goes up and down, and a say into what, if any, other player comes into the system.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Wow...just watched Kypreos and Maclean on Nick's podcast.

They claim Tre was giving ward his rosters and Ward wasn't allowed any input.

They then say Darryl won't make that much of a difference for too long.

2.idiots .

I listened to those two hacks. Kypreos made it sound like he heard it from the players (probably Bennett’s mind games comment or his agent) & MaClown said he heard that Brad was getting panicky and too involved with the coaching staff.

I don’t know who knows what is going on behind the scenes, but I know those two dolts don’t.

MacLean’s signature is:

“I’m not telling you what I’m saying is true, I’m just telling you what I heard.”

He probably heard it from Francis.

[bluejays]

I think people are afraid of those two being right. Personally I think they could be telling the truth - Kypreos is in the know. And it is damning against Brad. I don't think Daryl would come if they wanted to micromanage, but I did find the statement from Daryl early on that the system was not executed, a little peculiar. Often coaches will try their own style out, and it makes me wonder if there was a directive to go with this system based on whatever Brad is trying to put in place. It's not unreasonable, but I hope Daryl gets to fully manage the way he wants.

[Backstop]

If I remember the scene from the presser correctly, Sutter was sitting cross legged in a yurt full of warriors with a hockey stick across his lap.

He was asked "Darryl, What is best in life?" to which he replied "To crush your opponents -See them collapse before you, and to hear the lamentation of their fans"

This is what is best in life.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by fleury

I think people are afraid of those two being right. Personally I think they could be telling the truth - Kypreos is in the know. And it is damning against Brad. I don't think Daryl would come if they wanted to micromanage, but I did find the statement from Daryl early on that the system was not executed, a little peculiar. Often coaches will try their own style out, and it makes me wonder if there was a directive to go with this system based on whatever Brad is trying to put in place. It's not unreasonable, but I hope Daryl gets to fully manage the way he wants.

No one is afraid. They’re both verifiable idiots masquerading as clowns who sensationalize anything for clicks.

Kypreos called the Flames a disaster that Darryl Sutter would want no part of in the fall of 2002. He basically told Ken King to go back to the newspaper business after the Greg Gilbert fiasco.

Then Darryl was hired.

This isn’t a guy “in the know” in Calgary.

It has been obvious for weeks that the players confidence was shattered and they needed a different voice. Sometimes people can’t get their points across, while other people can. That’s life.

Darryl has a coaching and playing resume that speaks for itself and commands respect. He takes notes, he’s obviously organized and he sees the game with clarity and attention to detail. He obviously sees the personnel to execute a successful plan or he wouldn’t have taken the job.

One thing no one is pushing for an answer on nor will they likely ever receive an answer is if Treliving was given money to hire a coach above Geoff Ward’s pay grade in a season of lost revenue.

Treliving has been upfront about what he looks for in a coach and Ward could have been a fit. But he obviously wasn’t. Brad knows that accountability is on him.

Geoff did an admirable job last year in difficult circumstances. I don’t think he’s a hard ass or a pushover player coach. Ultimately he was not able to communicate effectively and inspire/uplift confidence in the team.

Treliving was on The Coaches Site interviewed by Pinder about what he looks for in a coach.


Kypreos & MacLean don’t do their homework. They ask other people for a synopsis (factual or not) of what their homework entails. Friedman does his homework which is why he’s a professional and not a hack.

While he’s never been a coach himself, as a longtime executive, Calgary Flames general manager Brad Treliving has an interesting perspective on the job of a bench boss.

Speaking with Sportsnet 960 host Ryan Pinder at our 2020 Virtual Hockey Summit last September, Treliving outlined four things that he really values in a coach:

1. Authenticity
2. Ability to communicate
3. Ability to inspire
4. Accountability

“You can be the smartest coach and you can have the greatest system, and all those things, but if you can’t communicate effectively to your players, you’re not going to get very far,” Treliving said.

“We’re in the ‘why’ generation right now. The players now that you guys are coaching, they’re the smartest athletes that we’ve been around… They want to know why, they want to know how they’re going to get there. They want to know how you’re going to help them get there.”

“But you need to inspire, you need to have leadership and light that engine in them.”

[JohnnyB]

Treliving outlined four things that he really values in a coach:

1. Authenticity
2. Ability to communicate
3. Ability to inspire
4. Accountability

So, with this as his criteria, Treliving fired Hartley, then hired Gulutzan, Peters, and Ward? Sutter obviously fits that bill, but there are plenty of rumors that Tre's hand was forced on that move. Peters maybe fits that bill. Gulutzan and Ward don't at all. Hartley, who he fired, was a decent fit.

Either Tre doesn't really use those criteria, or he has been a pretty poor coaching talent evaluator using his own metrics.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

So, with this as his criteria, Treliving fired Hartley, then hired Gulutzan, Peters, and Ward? Sutter obviously fits that bill, but there are plenty of rumors that Tre's hand was forced on that move. Peters maybe fits that bill. Gulutzan and Ward don't at all. Hartley, who he fired, was a decent fit.

Either Tre doesn't really use those criteria, or he has been a pretty poor coaching talent evaluator using his own metrics.

I remain a BT fan overall mainly because of his wizardry in RFA contracts and his ability to build an sustainable organization with proper drafting and development. His trades have been mostly good (Hamonic the worst of the bunch). But it is now quite clear to me BT gets a D- for his coaching hires until now.

BT has learned from his failings in UFA signings (Tanev and Markstrom have been great signings of late) and might have just figured out that getting a proven coach in this league is essential. ALWAYS HIRE A COACH WITH A PROVEN TRACK RECORD IN THE PLAYOFFS.

Why play a complete wildcard and hire a coach who has never accomplished anything in playoffs?

[300 MPH Blues]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am trying to keep my expectations in check for the rest of this season. The team might be too far gone at this point. If he can improve individual players this year, missing the playoffs won't the end of the world.

62 isn't terribly old for an NHL coach. It's not that uncommon that the good ones coach into their 60s. I think the age concern has more to do with appearances. He is definitely weathered in appearance, but he still seems sharp and fit. Part of it is that he is a rugged dude. A lot of the older coaches dye their hair and style themselves in a youthful manner to keep up appearances. Sutter did that in L.A. as well, so it seems like he aged more than he did since then.

Hold up, you’re saying our boy Darryl dyed his hair?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 300 MPH Blues

Hold up, our boy Darryl dyed his hair?

I think not

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am trying to keep my expectations in check for the rest of this season. The team might be too far gone at this point. If he can improve individual players this year, missing the playoffs won't the end of the world.

62 isn't terribly old for an NHL coach. It's not that uncommon that the good ones coach into their 60s. I think the age concern has more to do with appearances. He is definitely weathered in appearance, but he still seems sharp and fit. Part of it is that he is a rugged dude. A lot of the older coaches dye their hair and style themselves in a youthful manner to keep up appearances. Sutter did that in L.A. as well, so it seems like he aged more than he did since then.

Part of it is that Darryl looked so old and weathered when he was in his early to mid 40s, during his first tenure with the Flames, almost 20 years. He seemed like such a grumpy old man back then, so it's very hard not to perceive him as an even older grumpier person now.

In reality though 62 is in now way old for a professional coach.

[djsFlames]

Weathered?

You mean Young n' Fresh.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think not

He was sporting a pretty fabulous tan in his LA days.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[heep223]

Originally Posted by blankall

In reality though 62 is in now way old for a professional coach.

Why?

For context the average age of NHL head coaches is 54. There are 4 coaches over the age of 60. The oldest coach in the league is 65.

Darryl is on the older side for sure, but “62 is now way too old for a professional coach” is overly dramatic.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by heep223

Why?

For context the average age of NHL head coaches is 54. There are 4 coaches over the age of 60. The oldest coach in the league is 65.

Darryl is on the older side for sure, but “62 is now way too old for a professional coach” is overly dramatic.

It’s the trend to go for younger coaches, but then again, it was also the trend to go for inexperienced NHL coaches after some had success. It’s such a copycat league.

62 ain’t old, though. Maybe it’s because Sutter has been around forever, people feel like he’s older. Looks don’t help him there, like how Lanny looked like he was 70 when he retired when in reality was the same age as Iggy’s last season here (and 2 years younger than Gio is now).