In Sutter We Trust

[Scooter]

Eternal optomists and beliefs from diehard fans. Reminds me of something happening in the States.

[Inferno]

lol, I posted this on Facebook this morning and sure enough it happened.

Hopefully Darryl Sutter is conducting a bag skate this morning.

[monkeyman]

I haven't been this excited for Flames hockey in awhile. I'm not expecting an overnight transformation, but It'll be interesting to see how this team plays after a couple of weeks of Sutter. I'm sure it'll be a much more defensively aware, a much faster, and a much harder team to play against.

[Classic_Sniper]

I’m not expecting any miracles. Just hope he has this team playing less aggressive so they don’t leave themselves so vulnerable half the time.

[CSharp]

Nm.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I’m not expecting any miracles. Just hope he has this team playing less aggressive so they don’t leave themselves so vulnerable half the time.

Less aggressive?!?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Less aggressive?!?

Yes, the Flames are extremely aggressive on their puck pursuits. Under Peters and Ward, they pursued the puck almost too much and it put a lot of strain on the defensemen when defending. Throw in all the pinches without enough support/back pressure and it was a damn all you can eat buffet for their opponents.

[Enoch Root]

The Flames are as passive, with respect to puck pursuit, as any team in the league.

The winger will very often turn away from the puck and the puck carrier when they are below the hash marks in the corner (in their own zone).

The defense not only refuse to pinch, but they back all the way to their own hash marks before trying to take time and space away from the onrushing forwards.

Saying they are too aggressive is just... wow

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

Source: https://www.tsn.ca/darryl-sutter-put...sent-1.1604875

Ritchie with Money and Johnny.

Bag skate at first practice.

It begins!

Tim trying to find the unmute button lol. It’s only been a year guys, don’t worry about learning quick keys

Suffers response to length of practise was nice to hear.

[shadowlord]

Sutter is an elite coach, but I don't expect him to perform miracles with the team this season.

I believe in this core that are a better team on paper than they are currently showing in their play.

My expectation is that if Sutter can't whip them into shape, then I'm ready to accept that we need to change the core.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Carter played in only 16 games with the Kings in 2012. Prior to that Sutter had already led the Kings to a 13-9-8 record. Carter helped, but the improvement was already well underway.

[EDIT] And while the Flames may not have a player like Carter available to them this season, I don't think there is any chance that the roster is not significantly overhauled before the start of next season.

I am actually not convinced of this - either way.


It wouldn't surprise me if the exact same core is brought back again next season (with the usual periphery moves that happen).


It wouldn't surprise me if there are huge moves.


I think for now, I am taking a 'wait and see' approach.



For instance, is Johnny not really a 'playoff performer', or was it that he has never been put in a position to succeed in the playoffs? I think that Colorado match-up raised a lot of questions about his perceived 'ability to play in the post-season', but I also think at least partial blame lies at the feet of Peters who couldn't make adjustments, while Colorado was zeroing-in on Johnny whenever he was on the ice.


I am really hoping the Flames make the playoffs this season, and we can see what Johnny looks like playing for a coach who we all know is a very good tactician. If he performs poorly again, the I am much more confident in the answer that the team has to look at moving him (and whomever else isn't productive).


However, the crux of the argument is this: "Should a Stanley Cup Winning team make significant changes to the roster in the off-season?"


This is the approach that I am taking right now:


I will keep the history in the back of my mind as to provide more of a sample size if things don't change. However, for the most part, every single Calgary Flames player has a completely blank page for me to write notes about and keep track of. I am not hoping for roster changes at the moment - I am just hoping for changes in two key areas - how they are fitting-in to how the team is obviously trying to play, and how much success they are having in all zones of the ice. By the end of the season, I think we will all have a fairly good book on who we feel probably needs to go, and who needs to stay, and who is 'expendable, but whatever'.


If the Flames happen to make the playoffs this year, that's when we start writing our notes in all caps, and underline everything.


As it stands right now, I am not hoping for any roster changes for next season. I am excited to see how these players develop under Sutter and how they fit in from now until then.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Flames are as passive, with respect to puck pursuit, as any team in the league.

The winger will very often turn away from the puck and the puck carrier when they are below the hash marks in the corner (in their own zone).

The defense not only refuse to pinch, but they back all the way to their own hash marks before trying to take time and space away from the onrushing forwards.

Saying they are too aggressive is just... wow

So when I talk about puck pursuits, I’m talking about on the forecheck when they’re caught extremely deep and that’s what leaves them vulnerable on the defensive side because now the defensemen have to back up (as you said) to their own hash marks. The defensemen have to do this because naturally because they’d rather not give the breakaway; so instead they try to slow down their transition so the forwards have time to come back into the play. That’s what I’m talking about in terms of over aggression. If you have more support through the middle then you’re clogging the neutral zone more so you’re not left as vulnerable. Does that make more sense?

Also, the defensemen pinch a lot on this team. I’m not sure if you’ve ever seen Treliving’s comments about offense from your defensemen, but he believes in it big time and that philosophy probably shapes and determines who he hires as a coach in the first place.

I do agree with you that in the defensive zone, they do play very passive especially at the points and I assume that’s to give up the low percentage shot while protecting the high danger slot chances.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

So when I talk about puck pursuits, I’m talking about on the forecheck when they’re caught extremely deep and that’s what leaves them vulnerable on the defensive side because now the defensemen have to back up (as you said) to their own hash marks. The defensemen have to do this because naturally because they’d rather not give the breakaway; so instead they try to slow down their transition so the forwards have time to come back into the play. That’s what I’m talking about in terms of over aggression. If you have more support through the middle then you’re clogging the neutral zone more so you’re not left as vulnerable. Does that make more sense?

This is how Toronto was exiting so easily against Edmonton in their series. Edmonton was sending in two guys who'd try to pressure, fail and then were being the red line when Toronto was moving up, essentially 5 on 3. You can't stack the blue line with 3 guys. Of course, Toronto was moving the puck up ice quickly to exploit this.

[djsFlames]

I'm excited for the in-game adjustments and Sutter whispering assassin activation codes in players ears at key moments more than anything else.

Going to be ####ing therapeutic to watch a coach that isn't a robot put on sleep mode behind the players.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am actually not convinced of this - either way.


It wouldn't surprise me if the exact same core is brought back again next season (with the usual periphery moves that happen).


It wouldn't surprise me if there are huge moves.


I think for now, I am taking a 'wait and see' approach...

There are 12 players under contract next year with their three highest-paid players entering their final year before free agency, and a looming expansion draft.

Like it or not, there are going to be big changes starting this summer and heading into 2022.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Can't quote Classic_Sniper:


I agree with Enoch that this team is too passive. I actually think they are too passive in ALL areas of the game.


With respect to the forechecking - yes, sometimes when teams run 2 forecheckers, there can be odd-man rushes. However, in the Flames case, it isn't from being over-aggressive that they run into problems. The Flames allow too much to happen. They have miss coverages all the time. They incorrectly identify the wrong assignments on the back-check.


I think fast teams should employ a 2-man forecheck, and be as aggressive on the forecheck as possible, especially when they are dumping the puck in as often as they do. They just need to be better at recognizing the play developing, and properly identifying and not allowing odd-man rushes.


When there are 2 forecheckers in, there are still two D deep in the zone - it shouldn't translate into an odd-man rush unless the forecheckers misread the play. Centre should be controlling the middle of the ice and trying to cover the opposing centre who may receive the outlet pass, but also ensure that he doesn't allow the centre to get behind him to create an odd-man rush if the forecheckers aren't able to gain possession.


Over aggressive is when you already have two forecheckers deep in the zone, and the centre or one of the defencemen make an ill-advised pinch trying to get at a loose puck (or worse, anticipating the loose puck), and blowing by the three opposing forwards. If that puck gets behind him, it is a guaranteed 3 on 2, or even a 3-1 if the centre is slow to back-fill for the pinch.


You see the Flames give up a tonne of odd-man rushes, and it is because of missed assignments and misreads. Sutter (or any competent coach really) will help manage that, while staying aggressive.


Don't believe it? Just look at the underlying metrics on the Kings. They were for the most part a very stingy team, and it wasn't because Quick was making highlight reel save after highlight reel save like Markstrom (and Rittich) have been doing all season long. Sutter teams are aggressive and forecheck hard, but they don't allow out-numbered chances often. There is a right way to be aggressive, and there is a completely oblivious way to be aggressive and disregard competent defensive coverage.

[TheRealPepman]

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

There are 12 players under contract next year with their three highest-paid players entering their final year before free agency, and a looming expansion draft.

Like it or not, there are going to be big changes starting this summer and heading into 2022.

Very true, but I am directly referencing the core.


I myself almost want Tkachuk traded, as I don't think he is going to be worth 9 million a season, and consider the risk of him being unreasonable in a contract negotiation being high, forcing the Flames to just qualify him at 9 million, him accepting it, and going UFA. I am actually more concerned with his contract status over any other player on the team.


However, I am still going to presume that this is going to be a blank slate, and if Sutter can get this team working hard for the rest of the season - and through the playoffs if they make it - then the 'core' will make its' own case as to whether or not it stays intact.


Yes, the expansion draft is looming, but I am still fairly confident that the Flames lose a defencemen.


Gaudreau
Tkachuck
Monahan
Backlund
Lindholm
Dube
Mangiapane

That leaves the next best player available as Sam Bennett (or maybe Lucic if he continues having a really good season!).


On defence you have to make a choice between

Giordano
Tanev
Andersson
Hanifin


Most likely it is either one of Giordano or Tanev, but who knows? If Giordano or Tanev (or, playing devil's advocate here, Andersson or Hanifin) are left unprotected, they would undoubtedly be chosen over Bennett, unless Bennett absolutely explodes under Darryl (I think he will improve and function really well, but not expecting him to suddenly turn heads and out-value one of those 4 D).


We are definitely going to lose a core player this year (unless Seattle surprises), but for the 'core' that is protected, I am indifferent right now to change either way - I am of the belief that Treliving will continue to explore ideas to make this team better, but it is up to the core under Darryl to tell him how urgently it needs to be done. Maybe Treliving trades half of them? Maybe the only member that leaves is through the expansion draft. I think most of us will be in agreement with what that answer turns out to be as soon as the off-season starts. Right now, it is anyone's guess, no matter what has happened in the past.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by TheRealPepman

Looking forward to the parade of Sutter memes to come with his knack for dropping ill one liners.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

This is how Toronto was exiting so easily against Edmonton in their series. Edmonton was sending in two guys who'd try to pressure, fail and then were being the red line when Toronto was moving up, essentially 5 on 3. You can't stack the blue line with 3 guys. Of course, Toronto was moving the puck up ice quickly to exploit this.

Right and Toronto beat their forecheck because they made quick, efficient plays. They handled the pressure well and rendered Edmonton’s forecheck ineffective which in the end hurt them because they had 2 guys caught up ice. If F3 is at the very least situated in the neutral zone, then you have a second layer of defense who can step up and pick passes off or front the puck carrier, otherwise it’s just 2, 3 or 4 coming down at your lone 2 defensemen full steam who the. of course have to give up the blueline.

That’s what I’ve been trying to say for most of this season. The Flames’ failed checking attempts have been directly causing them problems in the defensive side of things. You can cause turnovers in other ways (i.e. the way teams are checking the Flames).