2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours - Page 410 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GioforPM · 03-01-2021, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

and I would take WPG off that.

For his point to stand, both Cs have to be clearly better than Monahan. That doesn't apply with WPG, IMO.

4 of those teams had to win the lottery, and 2 had to use a top 3 pick for their other guy. The Leafs had to pay a lot to Tavares and even then supposedly got a discount, and against the Flames they didn’t even use him as a centre.

Leafs are paying $22.6M for two centres (and another $11 four a winger). Edmonton is $21M (and one of their centres has not been a centre for much of his career).
Pittsburgh has been paying just under $20M for a long time.
Tampa Bay has got their Cs on decent contracts, but of course they have a $9.5M winger and a $9.5M goalie.

Psytic · 03-01-2021, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I bet every GM in the league would take Dubois over Monny in a heartbeat. And that's not even factoring in control and contracts.

I went to bat for Money at the time mostly on attitude. He's done everything the team has asked including trying to work on his defensive game. I really think with how often he is getting injured his body wont hold up and its down hill from here though sadly....

Textcritic · 03-01-2021, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonded

Lindholm - Monahan - Backlund is decent center depth if you have the wings to balance them out. Issue is that the Flames have zero RW depth, 2 are replacement level at best, and the other 2 are playing their off wing.

I'd love to flip some LWs for RWs assuming we cannot get a better centre.

Yeah, I am not in love with the Flames's centre depth, but it is a much less pressing issue than what they have a RW.

howard_the_duck · 03-01-2021, 01:56 PM

Dubois is arguably better right now, with more untapped potential yet to be realized too.

From Text's list, the notable omission for me was St Louis. There's just no way I'd have Monahan over O'Reilly or Schenn.

Enoch Root · 03-01-2021, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I bet every GM in the league would take Dubois over Monny in a heartbeat. And that's not even factoring in control and contracts.

well you have no idea what every GM thinks, but we know what you think

GioforPM · 03-01-2021, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Here are teams around the NHL that I don't think Monahan fits even as a 2nd line C:

Tampa
St. Louis
Toronto
Las Vegas
Washington
Edmonton
Philly
Pittsburgh
Vancouver (debatable)
Winnipeg

So no, I wouldn't call him an elite 2nd line C even. If we're going off his production based on his 1st line minutes and PP usage, then yes those numbers will stack up favorably for him. But on those teams, debates to be had on Vegas and Vancouver, I just don't see him inside the top 6.

This, to me, is the crux of the issue. Our top guy at center is on par or inferior to the 2nd best center on contending teams.

Vegas? Monahan is a better C than any of their guys. Chandler Stephenson? Come on. You’d have to work to convince me Monahan is worse than Schenn or Kevin Hayes.

Enoch Root · 03-01-2021, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Dubois is arguably better right now, with more untapped potential yet to be realized too.

From Text's list, the notable omission for me was St Louis. There's just no way I'd have Monahan over O'Reilly or Schenn.

He's hit 60 points once in his career. And at 29, his best years are behind him

Enoch Root · 03-01-2021, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

4 of those teams had to win the lottery, and 2 had to use a top 3 pick for their other guy. The Leafs had to pay a lot to Tavares and even then supposedly got a discount, and against the Flames they didn’t even use him as a centre.

Leafs are paying $22.6M for two centres (and another $11 four a winger). Edmonton is $21M (and one of their centres has not been a centre for much of his career).
Pittsburgh has been paying just under $20M for a long time.
Tampa Bay has got their Cs on decent contracts, but of course they have a $9.5M winger and a $9.5M goalie.

And it is debatable whether Tavares is still better than Monahan.

Textcritic · 03-01-2021, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Dubois is arguably better right now, with more untapped potential yet to be realized too.

From Text's list, the notable omission for me was St Louis. There's just no way I'd have Monahan over O'Reilly or Schenn.

It is not a notable omission. Braydon Schenn is remarkably similar to Sean Monahan, and I maintain that there is considerable debate about whether or not he would slot ahead of Monahan. I wouldn't put him there.

Textcritic · 03-01-2021, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And it is debatable whether Tavares is still better than Monahan.

Perhaps, but both Matthews and Marner are definitely better than Monahan.

Enoch Root · 03-01-2021, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Perhaps, but both Matthews and Marner are definitely better than Monahan.

Marner is a winger

Textcritic · 03-01-2021, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Marner is a winger

Is that right? Wow. Did I ever get that wrong.

Lanny_McDonald · 03-01-2021, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Perhaps, but both Matthews and Marner are definitely better than Monahan.

The Edmonton claim needs to be addressed as well. If Marner is a winger, then so is Draisaitl. If Edmonton didn't have McHobo, and Draisaitl was their top center, that is a team in serious serious trouble. The German Gretzky has yet to prove he can carry a line on his own IMO. It's easy to be a point machine behind McHobo, especially when your line sucks or the team is way behind they just throw you out with McHobo to rack up some meaningless late points.

djsFlames · 03-01-2021, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Vegas? Monahan is a better C than any of their guys. Chandler Stephenson? Come on. You’d have to work to convince me Monahan is worse than Schenn or Kevin Hayes.

That begs the question, how is Vegas icing such a competitive team consistently with underwhelming center depth?

There's a glut of good players there, but they have demonstrated that top end centers are not necessarily a prerequisite to being a good team in the current NHL.

sketchyt · 03-01-2021, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djsFlames

That begs the question, how is Vegas icing such a competitive team consistently with underwhelming center depth?

There's a glut of good players there, but they have demonstrated that top end centers are not necessarily a prerequisite to being a good team in the current NHL.

I disagree with underwhelming... I'd say underrated. Certainly from a top end standpoint there's no MacKinnon there, but Karlsson and Marchessault are a solid 1-2 punch. Very smart offensive players, with non stop motors and play decent 200 ft hockey. It would be like the Flames having two players of Monahan's production level.

Glass, Roy and Stephenson are also decent bottom sixers with Glass having offensive upside.

If anything, their C depth highlights the need for the Flames to acquire/develop another middle-6 C, at minimum.

SuperMatt18 · 03-01-2021, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djsFlames

That begs the question, how is Vegas icing such a competitive team consistently with underwhelming center depth?

There's a glut of good players there, but they have demonstrated that top end centers are not necessarily a prerequisite to being a good team in the current NHL.

Mark Stone is such a good 200ft winger that he can replicate the role that a 200ft Center would usually play on that line.

But yeah they still don’t really have an elite Center.

And really id say they have been really good but not elite since their magically run to the finals. And it’s probably arguable that not having that Center is what’s held them back.

Feel like they’d much rather have Suzuki and Tatar than Pacioretty already at this point.

The Yen Man · 03-01-2021, 02:52 PM

Think is is a case of grass not always greener on the other side. A lot of these guys wish they had Monahan's production. Karlsson, Marchessault, while good players, aren't on Monahan's level. I'd take Mony over Schenn anytime. Dubois has a lot of hype, I feel like he's now way overrated here.

djsFlames · 03-01-2021, 02:55 PM

Dubois has a bit of work to do to establish himself as on the same level as Monahan or better, as much as his tools suggest he can/will.

Potential remains potential until it materializes into tangible results.

really? · 03-01-2021, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is not a notable omission. Braydon Schenn is remarkably similar to Sean Monahan, and I maintain that there is considerable debate about whether or not he would slot ahead of Monahan. I wouldn't put him there.

Agree that Schenn is a solid comparison, but with the strides Monahan has taken to round out a complete game over the past two seasons along with him being a couple of years younger, I would thint St Louis would have to make a decent add if an exchange of the two players was ever considered. Similar styles and impacts, but Sean Monahan is the better player IMO.

dissentowner · 03-01-2021, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And it is debatable whether Tavares is still better than Monahan.

No. No it isn't.