02-28-2021, 03:34 PM
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#8041
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by really?
Perhaps that is what was meant, but co-dependent implies reliance on another. History does not support Gaudreau being dependent on Monahan.
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It kind of does. Take a look how well Gaudreau plays when Monahan is out of the lineup. The difference is stark, and pretty strongly suggests that Gaudreau does in fact depend quite a bit on Monahan. But I think they really help each other, and don't mean to suggest that one is more or less indispensable than the other. They are both really important players for this team.
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Last edited by Textcritic; 02-28-2021 at 04:37 PM.
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02-28-2021, 03:34 PM
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#8042
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
You are assuming they want a player of significant high value back. Many are assuming they want a ton of picks and prospects. Monahan in that scenario isn;t the base of the trade - he’s a guy who can take a centre spot in their roster while the picks and prospects develop with Cozens, Dahlin, and their other young guys.
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If you swap Tkachuk for Monahan then you are most likely adding another 1st and a prospect like Wolf to the trade.
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02-28-2021, 03:34 PM
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#8043
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Franchise Player
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Can someone please point to something tangible that shows Eichel is this massive superstar? Anything? Seriously, anything other than draft pedigree and a bunch of opinions based on hype and highlight packages? What has Jack Eichel done to deserve this reverence? What elite skill does he possess? Sell me, cause It’s all horse #### based on his production and success. A player as legendary as the one being built up here should able to elevate at least his line to lofty heights, like McHobo. So where’s the supporting data? Where’s the success?
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02-28-2021, 03:41 PM
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#8044
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
He's also terrible defensively being an incredible -66.
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Now there is a useless fact. I wonder if playing for a terrible team affects that stat?
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02-28-2021, 03:59 PM
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#8045
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
And I think that you ignore that he’s a 28 year old second line centre who has scored over 21 goals once, and scored 19 least year. Who makes $7.8M for 5 more years, with a NTC.
Monahan has more points in fewer seasons without centring arguably the best pure goal scorer ever.
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Kuznetsov's a playmaking, possession-driving center. I'm more interested in his assist totals and his ability to make his line mates better. He's also an elite skater. Monahan possesses none of these attributes.
As for his contract, I'm not sure how that's an argument against him? I think it's a value contract for what he brings. Kuznetsov also has a history of elevating his game in the playoffs, as evidenced by his nearly PPG in the postseason.
Is this a real debate?
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02-28-2021, 04:17 PM
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#8046
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
Can someone please point to something tangible that shows Eichel is this massive superstar? Anything? Seriously, anything other than draft pedigree and a bunch of opinions based on hype and highlight packages? What has Jack Eichel done to deserve this reverence? What elite skill does he possess? Sell me, cause It’s all horse #### based on his production and success. A player as legendary as the one being built up here should able to elevate at least his line to lofty heights, like McHobo. So where’s the supporting data? Where’s the success?
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This is actually a good point that not many people have posted.
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02-28-2021, 04:50 PM
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#8047
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Franchise Player
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Who are the centers that are definitely better than Eichel who are under 27? I would have the following on my list
McDavid
Matthews
MacKinnon
Draisaitl
Then you have about 6 that one can make an argument are around the same (maybe better, maybe worse) as Eichel
Point
Scheifele
Barkov
Aho
Pettersson
Barzal
What is the value of a young center that is anywhere between the 5th to 10th best at his position for his age group and makes 10 million a year? Is he a guy you give up most of your remaining prospect base for? Is he a guy you give up some of your limited depth for?
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02-28-2021, 04:54 PM
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#8048
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard_the_duck
Kuznetsov's a playmaking, possession-driving center. I'm more interested in his assist totals and his ability to make his line mates better. He's also an elite skater. Monahan possesses none of these attributes.
As for his contract, I'm not sure how that's an argument against him? I think it's a value contract for what he brings. Kuznetsov also has a history of elevating his game in the playoffs, as evidenced by his nearly PPG in the postseason.
Is this a real debate?
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Considering he played with Ovechkin, his assist totals are what I’d expect. Except when he doesn’t play with Ovechkin, in which case his assist totals aren’t great.
He replaced Backstrom but now he’s been replaced by Backstrom.
You may like him better, but it’s not a huge gap and saying stuff like “31 GMs would take him over Monahan” is just hyperbole. If his 7.8M for 52 points last year is good value, then Monahan’s $6.375 for 48 is even better. One has 8 seasons, 395 points. The other has 8 seasons, but is younger, plays with a lesser talent and has 426 points.
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02-28-2021, 05:28 PM
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#8049
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Franchise Player
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BUF is such a mess, but they do have some pretty great TDL bait:
Hall
Staal
Montour
Risto/Miller +1 to UFA
Unless they are getting a Lindros-ish haul, I've gotta imagine they wait until the off-season for anything related to Eichel.
I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being a 3-team deal. They desperately need a goalie and to ship out at least one of Okposo/Skinner. What a mess.
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02-28-2021, 06:11 PM
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#8050
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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Eichel led the Sabres in scoring last year by 28 points. You get him away from that team, and Kruger, and put him with a guy like Gaudreau, or even Tkachuk, he gets you 100 pts easy. Dude won the Hobey Baker with 71pts in 48g, and that was in his draft year. Just my opinion.
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02-28-2021, 06:24 PM
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#8051
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
Eichel led the Sabres in scoring last year by 28 points. You get him away from that team, and Kruger, and put him with a guy like Gaudreau, or even Tkachuk, he gets you 100 pts easy. Dude won the Hobey Baker with 71pts in 48g, and that was in his draft year. Just my opinion.
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It’s not like he’s been surrounded by slugs though. Taylor Hall this year, Oloffson, Reinhart, Kane.
I get the concern. He’s not a guy who teams probably devise special game plans to counter.
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02-28-2021, 06:30 PM
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#8052
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kamloops
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My eye test on Eichel has always been very impressive. He does a lot of things at a high level.
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02-28-2021, 06:32 PM
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#8053
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powderjunkie
BUF is such a mess, but they do have some pretty great TDL bait:
Hall
Staal
Montour
Risto/Miller +1 to UFA
Unless they are getting a Lindros-ish haul, I've gotta imagine they wait until the off-season for anything related to Eichel.
I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being a 3-team deal. They desperately need a goalie and to ship out at least one of Okposo/Skinner. What a mess.
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All those guys are rentals, and underperforming ones at that.
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02-28-2021, 07:33 PM
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#8054
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blender
My eye test on Eichel has always been very impressive. He does a lot of things at a high level.
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Skates well, drives play, plus-if we aquired him, we'd have more than one guy who can carry a puck over the blueline!
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02-28-2021, 07:36 PM
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#8055
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
Skates well, drives play, plus-if we aquired him, we'd have more than one guy who can carry a puck over the blueline!
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Please, if he can't master the drop pass followed by standing at the blueline and waiting patiently, he's just another chump.
__________________
"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
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02-28-2021, 07:37 PM
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#8056
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
Can someone please point to something tangible that shows Eichel is this massive superstar? Anything? Seriously, anything other than draft pedigree and a bunch of opinions based on hype and highlight packages? What has Jack Eichel done to deserve this reverence? What elite skill does he possess? Sell me, cause It’s all horse #### based on his production and success. A player as legendary as the one being built up here should able to elevate at least his line to lofty heights, like McHobo. So where’s the supporting data? Where’s the success?
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I mean Eichel has 174 points in 161 games in the last 3 seasons. That's great production IMO
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02-28-2021, 07:39 PM
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#8057
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
Can someone please point to something tangible that shows Eichel is this massive superstar? Anything?
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If I showed you something tangible, you'd just move the goalpost and start complaining about its validity.
You do you.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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02-28-2021, 07:42 PM
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#8058
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blender
My eye test on Eichel has always been very impressive. He does a lot of things at a high level.
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Except score, play any level of defense, make others around him better, and win? If fans are pissed at Monahan wait until they get a load of this guy! Then again, there is a contingent on this site that prefers to cheer for individual success over team success, so maybe Eichel is the perfect fit for those fans? I want a team that plays for each other and wins, not individuals who play flashy and get their heads caved in.
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02-28-2021, 07:43 PM
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#8059
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Crash and Bang Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
Eichel led the Sabres in scoring last year by 28 points. You get him away from that team, and Kruger, and put him with a guy like Gaudreau, or even Tkachuk, he gets you 100 pts easy. Dude won the Hobey Baker with 71pts in 48g, and that was in his draft year. Just my opinion.
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We already have a guy that's won the Hobey Baker. This new guy may just get in the way.
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02-28-2021, 07:47 PM
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#8060
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
If I showed you something tangible, you'd just move the goalpost and start complaining about its validity.
You do you.
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Careful. This from the guy who has convinced himself Sam Bennett is a good hockey player and the Flames have mistreated him.
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