The Deal With Geoff Ward

[FlamesAddiction]

I am probably one of the only people here not ready to put all this on Ward yet. I keep think about what Rhett Warrener was saying about it being a bad room, and I am inclined to agree with him.

I guess it is a chicken and egg scenario. Is it a bad room because the coaching sucks, or is the coach helpless because there are a few bad apples spoiling the bunch? It's anyone's guess at this point, but watching how the team interacts on the ice, it looks like half of them are pissed off at the other half. I think there are a few players that didn't have their heart in it since game one this season and it has festered.

I don't know... is it the coach's job to change how players feel about their job, or is it on the players to show professionalism? There are some players I assume, who would likely rather be anywhere else in the world than in a Calgary pandemic bubble playing the same teams over and over, but they are trying to make the most of it. Then there are some, I am wagering, that are looking at the shortened Canadian division season as a waste of a year and can't wait for it to be over. If my hunch is right, you can see how it would cause a rift in the room that I think would baffle any coach.

Certain players on this team have had questionable intentions in the past, as evident in the Colorado and Dallas series. The talent is there, but I've questioned their fortitude and desire for a while. When things are going good, they seem to be all in, but as soon as there is adversity, there a few key guys that just don't seem to care enough and start thinking Arby's

Or maybe it's all on Ward, I don't really know. Probably a bit of both.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am probably one of the only people here not ready to put all this on Ward yet. I keep think about what Rhett Warrener was saying about it being a bad room, and I am inclined to agree with him.

I guess it is a chicken and egg scenario. Is it a bad room because the coaching sucks, or is the coach helpless because there are a few bad apples spoiling the bunch? It's anyone's guess at this point, but watching how the team interacts on the ice, it looks like half of them are pissed off at the other half. I think there are a few players that didn't have their heart in it since game one this season and it has festered.

I don't know... is it the coach's job to change how players feel about their job, or is it on the players to show professionalism? There are some players I assume, who would likely rather be anywhere else in the world than in a Calgary pandemic bubble playing the same teams over and over, but they are trying to make the most of it. Then there are some, I am wagering, that are looking at the shortened Canadian division season as a waste of a year and can't wait for it to be over. If my hunch is right, you can see how it would cause a rift in the room that I think would baffle any coach.

Certain players on this team have had questionable intentions in the past, as evident in the Colorado and Dallas series. The talent is there, but I've questioned their fortitude and desire for a while. When things are going good, they seem to be all in, but as soon as there is adversity, there a few key guys that just don't seem to care enough and start thinking Arby's

Or maybe it's all on Ward, I don't really know. Probably a bit of both.

It’s not a bit of both. It’s a lot of both. And a few things beyond control (mainly Gio getting old).

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Red_Baron

Has Ward ever called a timeout?

Timeouts are not a good measure of coach, especially if they have nothing to tell the players as far as adjustments go. I mean, if you have nothing to say, you have no answer to what the opposition is doing, what good is the timeout going to do except all the other team to get their ducks in a row. Ward is an empty suit behind the bench. His in game adjustments can be counted on one hand since he became the head coach. A timeout would be all but useless.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

Timeouts are not a good measure of coach, especially if they have nothing to tell the players as far as adjustments go. I mean, if you have nothing to say, you have no answer to what the opposition is doing, what good is the timeout going to do except all the other team to get their ducks in a row. Ward is an empty suit behind the bench. His in game adjustments can be counted on one hand since he became the head coach. A timeout would be all but useless.

He's made two adjustment types from what I can see:

1 - Change goalies
2 - Pull out the Geoff Ward Line Blender of Random Dismay

[Lanny_McDonald]

Hahaha. Good point. Kind of drives home the point as neither of those adjustments change anything about the opposition's tactics. That's the issue here.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It’s not a bit of both. It’s a lot of both. And a few things beyond control (mainly Gio getting old).

Totally. You can't under estimate what a Norris caliber defenseman can do for a team. They are like the bass player in a band.

I also know a lot of players enjoy road trips to places like New York, Miami, L.A., Vegas, etc... and it's sucked some of the fun out of the year for them. You could say the same thing about any of the teams in the Canadian division and the NHL in general as social distancing prevents them from enjoying road trips and team events, but it becomes a question of character. Teams with fewer players that have that as a priority are going to suffer less this year.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by zamler

Name a way you could make this happen.

Didn’t I answer this in my post? They could use a 5-0 victory where everybody who’s snake bitten contributes so they can start building back their confidence. This team just has that feeling that they’re feeling sorry for themselves. Like they read too many of their own press clippings early on and figured they’d be a lock to contend for the Cup, but now that things haven’t gone their way, they feel helpless and sad that they’re not that team. It’s pathetic. Forget the hype, just pull up your hockey pants, stop mopping around and get back to work already.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Totally. You can't under estimate what a Norris caliber defenseman can do for a team. They are like the bass player in a band.

I also know a lot of players enjoy road trips to places like New York, Miami, L.A., Vegas, etc... and it's sucked some of the fun out of the year for them. You could say the same thing about any of the teams in the Canadian division and the NHL in general as social distancing prevents them from enjoying road trips and team events, but it becomes a question of character. Teams with fewer players that have that as a priority are going to suffer less this year.

I am NOT showing this post the the bass player in my band. He already calls it his band.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

?

The Flames were grossly outplayed in the Dallas series.

The Jets were missing their top two centers in Little and Scheifele. Take out any opponent's top two line centers and you can get away with not having a competent head coach.

My question to you is: what made Ward coach so differently in that qualifier round that has changed all of a sudden less than 1 month into this season? Was Bennett randomly benched or scratched or moved to wing in that series? Were Robinson, Rinaldo, Reider and Jankowski randomly promoted to the top line?

The Flames were a complete mess right before the Peters’ situation occurred. Ward came in and at the very least, steadied the ship and didn’t make things worse. I like the job he did in the bubble, they actually won a round. Losing Scheifele was big for the Jets, but they didn’t have Little for 90% of the year and were still playing well. The Flames also lost Tkachuk in the Dallas series and thus lost their top line at the time. They lost, it wasn’t that close, but the Stars went to the Stanley Cup finals, so that speaks to how good that team was. Plus I blamed Gaudreau and Monahan more for that loss then the coaching staff. With Tkachuk out, they needed to step up and they didn’t.

As for question about Ward, nothing has changed. Message is still the same, system is still the same. It’s the core players and to a lesser extent the new members of this team that haven’t stepped up to the plate to deliver. Bottom 6 scoring is basically non existent, not enough production from the majority of your core. Lots of basic mistakes, lots of defensive breakdowns, not enough pride in their game. Lots of things that are out of the coach’s hands. Puck watching, bad bounces, undisciplined penalties, missing the net on grade A chances and etc.

[Calgary4LIfe]

When we talk about systems, this is how I see it:


What the heck is Ward trying to accomplish? I honestly can't figure it out.



Brent Sutter: I hated him. Why? Because he forced the oldest and smallest team (forget where they ranked for both stats exactly, but they were top 3 for both when ranked for oldest, and smallest) to play exclusively along the boards. I remember Regehr talking about how pucks had to be cleared along the boards only in the defensive zone. That's it. Sutter talking about this team can't score off the rush. In what world can you legitimately expect one of the smallest teams in the NHL to play off the boards every night, or force the oldest team in the NHL to 'battle' for pucks every single night. It made zero sense.


Bob Hartley: I loved him because he made the Flames exceed expectations (and they were entertaining). I criticize his system for being too passive in the defensive zone - especially when it was apparent that Hillier was starting to allow low-percentage shots more and more frequently. However, he realized that his teams had great puck-moving and skating defencemen, and had some decent team speed. Quick transition, and try to beat teams into their zone before they got set on D, in order to produce higher quality shots, even if they were lower quality. I didn't have a problem with that system, as I felt that there was no way they were talented enough to have strong metrics at any other system anyway. Gaudreau was money on finding the trailer who wasn't covered, as the defensive team was already out of position. D were not allowed to rim the puck along the end boards to one another - D to D pass was allowed once, but it was preferable for the D to move the puck forward right away to a forward, or skate the puck if they had open ice (this was from one of Sarich's interview, where he blasted Hartley, but I actually thought Hartley was right).



Gulutzan: Tried to play a 'safer system'. It really started to annoy me as he seemed to be 'playing for CORSI'. Lots of low volume shots, and I argue even when they came from dangerous areas of the ice, they were often contested or the goalie was already set in position. Flames usually looked better analytically, but were they actually better? I don't think so. Surprisingly, I didn't think that they were very strong in their defensive zone either. It didn't make use of the really strong puck-moving D.


Peters: First 2/3rds of the season, I thought the Flames were using their strengths well. D were moving the puck quickly, and this team was causing other teams to have defensive zone breakdowns. Fun to watch again too, which was a bonus. Defensively they were fine I thought. A good 'hybrid' between Hartley's system, but with a bit more emphasis on pressure defence (still not as much pressure defence as I would like to have seen though). It was also a much better team. Suddenly, they just stopped being that team. They started transitioning slower again. I don't know what happened. Not sure if Peters changed the system, or if they just stopped competing.



Ward: Yeah, I have no idea. Flames rim that puck around the boards from D-to-D a lot. Such an excruciatingly slow transition. I have argued that shot attempts for and against are not the best way to measure possession. However, I have no doubt that if you were to actually measure possession with a stop watch for the Flames, they would be the #1 team in the NHL for possession. The amount of time they hold onto pucks while doing nothing with it at all - not moving it forward, and just waiting for everyone to get set - is amazing. It will not be repeated for many seasons. Maybe I am exaggerating here, but that's a slow transition! I also don't get how Ward is allowing those dangerous passes from the side boards to the front of the net in the defensive zone. Flames haven't been caught with it (that I can remember), but just funny how his 'safe' hockey allows for that (but would get you benched for a period under Brent Sutter). I don't have a problem with it, but just surprised it is being allowed.


I think Gulutzan and Peters essentially have the same transition. I think the reason that Gulutzan had better metrics with it (shot counts especially), was that there were better board players on the Flames at the time. Ferland, Bouma, Brouwer, Chiasson, Frolik, Hathaway - in addition to Bennett and Tkachuk that we have now. That's a better 'play against the boards' group. Lucic I am on the fence when it comes to board play - he seems to always fall on the ice a lot and loses a lot of these board battles, but that may be my own confirmation bias.



I think before you figure out which system to employ for generating offence, I think the first question that we have to ask is HOW offence is generated in today's NHL.


This isn't the 1980's any longer, where the 'small, athletic goalie' was favoured, who also had small pads strapped on, and where playing defence was a relative passing fancy to a lot of teams.



Brent Sutter had the right idea, but completely the wrong team. If the Flames under his watch were one of the bigger teams in the NHL, with aggressive defensive defencemen, that system would have worked out well I thought. It would have generated enough offence because eventually the cycle would have forced the opposing team to have defensive breakdowns - slips in coverage, guys getting confused, even a couple of players wiping out along the boards.



That's the key - creating defensive breakdowns.


Gulutzan's system was terrible because he didn't cause enough defensive breakdowns. As I said, lots of shots, but mostly the defending team were set, especially the goalie. Remember how many times that team seemed to miss? Was it because they sucked at shooting suddenly, or was it because they were forced to try and pick corners on the goalies?


Do you see the same thing happening now? Are the Flames suddenly inept shooters, or are they trying too hard to pick corners in an effort to beat the goalie? Goalies are set right now. At the start of the season - especially on the PP - the Flames were moving the puck well and the goalie had to move to make the save, but now it seems the Flames have to pick corners. Much like Gulutzan's system, a lot of these shots are contested. Not enough defensive breakdowns by the other team - Flames just aren't causing enough.


Unlike Gulutzan's system, the Flames don't have nearly the personnel to cycle effectively, especially game-in, and game-out. That can't be the principle source of offence generation, just like it shouldn't have been for Brent Sutter's Flames. They will have games when they look great at cycling, but all you need is one weak link to disrupt your own cycle. Flames aren't strong enough as a group to cycle.


Josh Leivo on the top line would probably not be terrible if this team was quicker at transitioning and causing a few more defensive breakdowns for the other team. Josh Leivo is useless on the top line while trying to get pucks in the corner, and Gaudreau isn't very good at it either (big surprise). So to have a slow transition is maddening. Play it out in your head.


1) Flames get control of the puck, D-to-D passing, both teams are now set.
2) D makes pass to Gaudreau, who then stickhandles his way through the neutral zone. Reaches the blue-line, what happens next?
3) Opposing team is set defensively - no breakdowns have happened. So Gaudreau now has to make a quick decision:
A) Dump the puck in, hoping that Leivo or Simon can get to the puck and win a 50/50 board battle, or hope that Monahan is coming in with speed to even get to the puck.
B) Try to dangle through the team and force the breakdown himself


This is what happens over and over I find. Flames are LESS suited to playing along the boards. Flames are 100% fine with drafting undersized players - and that's great. Players like Mangiapane are fantastic. But then they go and try to force the team to play as if they are all 6'5" and 230lbs?


This team CAN cycle, but they can't cycle as often every damn game as the predominant strategy. They are transitioning too slow to do anything else. That's how you make Gaudreau have terrible seasons, and question the ability to win with him, IMO.


Peters had an awfully slow transition against Colorado I thought - how often did you see Johnny having to skate right into FOUR opposing players trying to gain the blue-line? That means that they were ALL set. He dumps it in, and the Flames didn't recover the puck nearly enough. Look at MacKinnon on the other side of the game, and he was freewheeling. Was he 'trying harder'? No. It wasn't about effort. It was about being out-coached. It was about one team employing a much more suited system for their team.


I am not advocating pond hockey. I just think that Ward better take a good long look at this team relative to the other teams, and figure out where the teams' strengths and weaknesses lie, so that he can actually do his job more effectively and get this team playing more effective hockey. This slow transition is infuriating to watch, and up until now, proven to be the wrong system to use for an undersized team - especially in the top 9. Adding Robinson, Rinaldo and Ritchie to the lineup just makes this a better cycling and tougher 4th line team, but does absolutely nothing to the 3 other lines.


Quicker transitions will help create breakdowns in the opposing team's defence, helping to create better opportunities to score, and reducing the 'missed shots' count as players are continually trying to pick corners against a set goalie.



I feel we have all seen this song and dance here before, and it results in a boring game to watch, a disappointing season, a fired coach, and a measurable amount of apathy even from die-hard fans.

[Flamesforever99]

I blame the GM, ownership, and this mediocre core.

Ward is not an NHL head coach but he's decent enough to get us into the playoffs and even that is not looking possible.

Either Tre shakes things up in the off season or he can leave town, all he's been good for is signing RFA's to team friendly deals and outside of that his UFA signings and Trades are the reason this core is up to the cap and mediocre.

Keep Johnny, Chucky, Lindy, Markstrom and Andersson. I'd keep Lucic too since he has more heart in his pinky than most of the guys on this team.

At this point I'd call Bob Hartley too and see if he wants to come back because flames are still dumping and chasing and at least his method worked.

Please flames do us a favour and miss the playoffs it's not worth it to get to the dance only to collapse once again.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesforever99

I blame the GM, ownership, and this mediocre core.

Ward is not an NHL head coach but he's decent enough to get us into the playoffs and even that is not looking possible.

Either Tre shakes things up in the off season or he can leave town, all he's been good for is signing RFA's to team friendly deals and outside of that his UFA signings and Trades are the reason this core is up to the cap and mediocre.

Keep Johnny, Chucky, Lindy, Markstrom and Andersson. I'd keep Lucic too since he has more heart in his pinky than most of the guys on this team.

At this point I'd call Bob Hartley too and see if he wants to come back because flames are still dumping and chasing and at least his method worked.

Please flames do us a favour and miss the playoffs it's not worth it to get to the dance only to collapse once again.

The Flames aren’t dumping and chasing. I wish they would commit to a dump and chase and work at it hard.

And Hartley’s method worked in one year where they Flames were continually outshot and the next year they reverted to the norm (and yes, goaltending wasn’t good).

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Flames aren’t dumping and chasing.

That's because they lose the puck first before they can even do that!

#ThanksGeoff

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

That's because they lose the puck first before they can even do that!

#ThanksGeoff

This is true. And it’s a legit complaint about Ward. I just keep hearing that they dump and chase when it’s not true.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Ward: Yeah, I have no idea. Flames rim that puck around the boards from D-to-D a lot. Such an excruciatingly slow transition. I have argued that shot attempts for and against are not the best way to measure possession. However, I have no doubt that if you were to actually measure possession with a stop watch for the Flames, they would be the #1 team in the NHL for possession. The amount of time they hold onto pucks while doing nothing with it at all - not moving it forward, and just waiting for everyone to get set - is amazing. It will not be repeated for many seasons. Maybe I am exaggerating here, but that's a slow transition! I also don't get how Ward is allowing those dangerous passes from the side boards to the front of the net in the defensive zone. Flames haven't been caught with it (that I can remember), but just funny how his 'safe' hockey allows for that (but would get you benched for a period under Brent Sutter). I don't have a problem with it, but just surprised it is being allowed.

Here’s the problem with all this coach talk, it’s that we see what the Flames are doing and we just assume that’s how they want to play. They have slow breakouts, must be the coach’s doing.

Well why doesn’t the opponent ever get any credit in all of this? Why is it always on the coach? Ward doesn’t want to break out slow, it’s because he has to. Like, the opponent obviously doesn’t want you to break out fast and score easy goals because that wouldn’t benefit them. So they drop 4 back and now you have to breakout slow because if you just went full steam into a pile of bodies, you’re going to turn it over and that goes right into their game plan.

Therein lies the problem. There’s not a lot of solutions to breaking the trap. If there was, New Jersey wouldn’t have won 3 Stanley Cups. Sadly, it’s extremely effective and even more sadly, it’s especially effective against the Flames. Long stretch pass can beat the trap. Well only Gaudreau is reliable getting behind defenses and even he has had his struggles finishing on breakaways. Most of the time, long stretch passes just result in turnovers, so what’s the alternative? Breakout slow with short passes and support as a 5 man unit...and yes, I can already see some eyes rolling here.

Probably the best way to break the trap is to have your centerman carry the puck out himself. Find the open ice, skate towards it, draw pressure and then find your winger whichever side isn’t flooded. So what’s the problem then? Just do that. Well the problem is the Flames don’t have that big #1 center who can hold onto pucks up the middle, delay, wait for plays to develop and then distribute to his open wingers.

Monahan always defers to Gaudreau and the opposition is ok with that because that’s the side they’ll generally flood and Gaudreau is up against the boards so he’s cornered and has no where to go, so turnover. Lindholm is just developing his skills as a full time center, so even though he’s been formidable, he’s still green and honestly he’s actually better as the retriever because he’s such a puck hound. That’s why he works so well as a winger. Backlund is probably the best on the team at this, but even his vision and puck skills are rather limited in comparison to the elite centers of the league.

So there you have it, the book on the Flames. They can’t beat the trap no matter how hard they try or what new things they do. This team isn’t nearly quick enough to get on to pucks when they do manage to dump it in, so it’s a pretty easy breakout for the opposition. Winnipeg has been very successful this season at beating the Flames by clogging the neutral zone and same goes for the Canucks in their recent mini series. I know the Avalanche killed the Flames in the playoffs with this strategy. The Flames quite simply put, has no answer to this and I’m not sure they ever will with the current personnel.

[Calgary4LIfe]

At Classic Sniper (still can't quote):


Q: Why doesn't the opponent get any credit in all of this?
A: Flames played a lousy Vancouver team that was reeling with a terrible start to the year, rumours about a GM getting fired, etc. Vancouver were not good, yet seemed to neutralize the team fairly effectively. Oilers - a terrible defensive team both on paper and on the ice (just look at their shots against and underlying metrics), and yet they were still able to basically neuter Calgary's offence. You are seeing different teams doing this to Calgary now. I would agree to give the opposing teams more credit than I am, but at the end of the day, this is a pattern that the Flames are going through, and this pattern stretches back for a while now. It is just getting worse.

As for Ward not wanting to break out slowly? No, I disagree here too. You can see it when the Flames take control of the puck in their own zone. SOMETIMES you will see a stretch pass attempt, but rarely do you see a fast break-out. Flames corral the puck, pass D to D, then to F, then to D again... It isn't the other team doing a great job hustling back, it is the Flames not attacking with speed the instant they get control of the puck.


Every team has bad games and bad stretches. Maybe you are right and this isn't the way Ward wants to play. I guess we will see this play out for a while longer and get a larger sample size. I, however, am convinced that what we see in terms of the breakout IS what Ward wants to happen. I hope I am proven wrong, or that Ward changes things up considerably - I will be happy with either as long as the Flames start attacking with more speed again and actually look interesting to watch again.


They enter too slowly to break the trap. Flames need to just mix it up more. Yes, not every time they take control of the puck can they just go out and attack - they could be tired and in need of a line change, or most of the opposing team is already playing it safe and are getting into position by then. There are different ways to break the trap - heck, lots of set plays, like firing the puck unexpectedly behind the red line and having a forward already racing to beat the icing. Try short passes, try stretch passes, dump and chase - but the problem is that the Flames are too often allowing the other team to get into position. That's not exactly my point.


My point is if the Flames are intent on coming out as a 5 man unit every time they take possession of the puck, then the opposing team has the relative luxury of getting set on defence, including trap hockey. The most effective way to beat the trap, is to attack before they are set. Confusion is what causes defensive breakdowns the most regularly, which leads to better scoring chances. Don't want to confuse your opponent? Then you better out-skill them - and that's whey you see players trying to dangle through too many players. Outwork them is fine too - but it is a tough deal to work that hard all season, especially when you are playing every other night with some back-to-backs interspersed throughout.


They don't always need to beat the trap. They just need to turn around and head the other way before the other team sets up the trap. That's most of my point.

[AustinL_NHL]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1364050497179590657

Even the way Ward describes injuries is annoying and dumb

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

https://twitter.com/user/status/1364050497179590657

Even the way Ward describes injuries is annoying and dumb

lol was just thinking that

Isn't 'day to day for a while' just week to week?

[JohnnyB]

I hadn't realized until watching Ward's post-game that Markstrom was day-to-day.

That's not a good look for Ward either. Overplaying the new star goalie to the point that he ends up getting pulled in games and then getting injured.... Yikes. Markstrom was the team's best player.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I hadn't realized until watching Ward's post-game that Markstrom was day-to-day.

That's not a good look for Ward either. Overplaying the new star goalie to the point that he ends up getting pulled in games and then getting injured.... Yikes. Markstrom was the team's best player.

You are making a huge assumption about his injury. It’s pretty likely he got hurt somewhat in his collisions, which could happen in any game.

The vast majority of CPrs wanted Markstrom in every time he was in. And the schedule favoured it.

We are down to criticizing Ward for how he announces injuries and on assumptions about a player with a history of injuries getting hurt.