[PGT] Flames Lose to Canucks by a lot of goals

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

What runs are you talking about?

Under Ward, I've seen none. Having one line playing well (Whether that's Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane or Lucic-Bennett-Dube while all other lines struggle doesn't exactly qualify IMO)

Gulutzan's best "runs" came during a stretch where Chad Johnson looked like a Vezina candidate, and then a ten game stretch when Brian Elliott played his best hockey. The irony is that those stretches were the worst underlying number stretches of Gulutzan's tenure, even though improving underlying numbers was his whole MO.

Ward’s teams had winning streaks and so did GG’s. Of course, those are dismissed because they don’t fit the narrative that the players sometimes just don’t try hard enough or execute well.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Lindholm is playing great at centre. Monahan and Gaudreau getting hemmed in by the fourth line is not the RW problem.

Tkachuk not playing near his level is not on Lindholm. Those three (Monahan, Gaudreau and Tkachuk) are below their level of play for past few games despite some points.

And it's not just them. The entire team is not sharp to start games. They don't skate to start - they just watch the other team to see what they're going to get. They are content with taking it.

Apparently CGY compete level is a slow boil. I guess that's what CGY scouts look for because compete is supposed to be quality management selects for but they just chose the we'll get to it later kind. Stand around and watch kind.

I mean Markstrom is ready why can't they copy him?

It’s a combination of lines plus system though

That article on their breakouts showed a couple of things. A lot of it was weak side D use abs tunnel vision, but another huge part of it was speed

Pre ASG under Peters, 13-23-28 were wheeling with 7 and 5. Now you have too much of the winger (19 a ridiculous amount of the time) stationary at the far blue line

Also Ward’s job isn’t to maximize 28 and admire how lovely he is at C (despite the W stapled to him being bizarrely AWOL when the clock is running), it’s to maximize the group of 12 F and 18 skaters. Too many C’s on this team and not enough Ws and tough decisions have to be made

Good players playing slow and dumb fail to amaze

[calgarywinning]

If Ward is not an idiot he will stop the dump and chase play based on conversion pct alone and also the FO pct tonight.

Also, Tkachuk is having a bad streak. So what's up with that.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

This isnt the big bad bruins in 2010. The flames aren't huge . This isn't there game.

May be this is the problem, he is stuck in 2010.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Lindholm is playing great at centre. Monahan and Gaudreau getting hemmed in by the fourth line is not the RW problem.

Tkachuk not playing near his level is not on Lindholm. Those three (Monahan, Gaudreau and Tkachuk) are below their level of play for past few games despite some points.

Woah, I'm not blaming Lindy for anything. Love the guy, he's the Flames best 2 way player by a fair margin. I'm just saying saying moving him to RW on the top line may improve 3 lines at once. At this point I'd like to see it tried.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Woah, I'm not blaming Lindy for anything. Love the guy, he's the Flames best 2 way player by a fair margin. I'm just saying saying moving him to RW on the top line may improve 3 lines at once. At this point I'd like to see it tried.

When Backlund comes back, I'm in agreement. I like Lindholm at C, but I can't deny, right not it just isn't working. We need him on the wing more

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Bennett - Dube
Nordstrom/Simon - Ryan - Leivo

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by btimbit

When Backlund comes back, I'm in agreement. I like Lindholm at C, but I can't deny, right not it just isn't working. We need him on the wing more

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Bennett - Dube
Nordstrom/Simon - Ryan - Leivo

If Lindholm is a better center than Monahan, why would Monahan center Lindholm? I guess this is just sort of my problem with the whole purple gatorade line.

Lindholm can't cover the defensive zone ice half as well if he's limited to wing assignments.

This is also my issue with Bennett on the wing in most cases. You're basically taking away these two players' best assets.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If Lindholm is a better center than Monahan, why would Monahan center Lindholm? I guess this is just sort of my problem with the whole purple gatorade line.

Lindholm can't cover the defensive zone ice half as well if he's limited to wing assignments.

This is also my issue with Bennett on the wing in most cases. You're basically taking away these two players' best assets.

Simply because I think Lindholm is also a better winger than Monahan. We know it works, we've seen it happen

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by btimbit

When Backlund comes back, I'm in agreement. I like Lindholm at C, but I can't deny, right not it just isn't working. We need him on the wing more

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Bennett - Dube
Nordstrom/Simon - Ryan - Leivo

So it turns out Backlund played tonight


Backlund’s back, all right !

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So it turns out Backlund played tonight


Backlund’s back, all right !

Haha, shows how much I paid attention. I really only half-watched the 2nd period

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If Lindholm is a better center than Monahan, why would Monahan center Lindholm? I guess this is just sort of my problem with the whole purple gatorade line.

Lindholm can't cover the defensive zone ice half as well if he's limited to wing assignments.

This is also my issue with Bennett on the wing in most cases. You're basically taking away these two players' best assets.

Multivariable optimization is complicated.

I started a thread about how the team had more centres than wingers once upon a time

We are now having that same conversation again

Jesus, March 2020 feels like it’s been almost a year long! :-)

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Simply because I think Lindholm is also a better winger than Monahan. We know it works, we've seen it happen

It doesn't matter if he's a better winger, though.

What matters most is who is the better center.

Centers simply touch far more areas of the ice, literally and figuratively.

You don't watch Connor McDavid play and think "boy he would look nice on Ryan Nugent Hopkins' wing"

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It doesn't matter if he's a better winger, though.

What matters most is who is the better center.

Centers simply touch far more areas of the ice, literally and figuratively.

Disagree. The optimal mix of 12 matters unless the GM wants to build a roster with the right number of guys who naturally play each position

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It doesn't matter if he's a better winger, though.

What matters most is who is the better center.

Centers simply touch far more areas of the ice, literally and figuratively.

Hey I'm all for trying it, in theory, I agree. Right now though I'd rather get to the basics and go with something we know works.

If we're moving Monahan to the wing I'd think it's better suited to the left, which also involves moving Gaudreau to the right. That's too many moving parts during a time where we need guys to get their confidence back. Plus like I said, we already know Lindholm on the right side works

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Disagree. The optimal mix of 12 matters unless the GM wants to build a roster with the right number of guys who naturally play each position

The optimal mix of 12 will have the more effective centers at center, period.

I'm not asking for anyone to be underslotted.

I am however, saying that someone who might be our best center (based on Gelinas' comments, not my opinion) should not be moved to the wing.

[shadowlord]

We played 4 straight games against the Canucks, almost like a mini-playoff series. They figured out our system and countered it nearly perfectly.

Ward had 4 games against the same opponent to devise a way to adapt and overcome. When we play more of these 4 game series against the other teams in the division, they're gonna smoke us.

Ward preaches about playing consistently, and comes up with brand new line combos tonight that haven't experienced success together. Where is the consistency when your linemate is changing all the time? And then it all gets blended up even further in-game too.

Ward should take a page out of his own coaching book.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

The optimal mix of 12 will have the more effective centers at center, period.

I'm not asking for anyone to be underslotted.

I am however, saying that someone who might be our best center (based on Gelinas' comments, not my opinion) should not be moved to the wing.

No, respectfully, I disagree

12-23-28 was a top line in the league. The Flames have failed to fill out that line with anyone else. Johnny got 99 points. Until the Flames replicate that line, there is a debate to be had.

So no. Not ‘period’

The best mix of 12 gets the best results and whatever we are seeing now, there is no conversation about being a top line in the league, or a top 2 team

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Then why did that same core overachieve in 2014-15?

It’s not as neat and tidy as you think it is just because you want to that the lazy negative take.

You can't be serious. Maybe they overachieved in 2014/2015 because nobody knew who the hell they were! Gaudreau was a rookie and Monahan was in year 2. The book is out on them, especially Monahan. Hence why they struggle every year 5 on 5 in crunch time.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

No, respectfully, I disagree

12-23-28 was a top line in the league. The Flames have failed to fill out that line with anyone else. Johnny got 99 points. Until the Flames replicate that line, there is a debate to be had.

I advise you to look at this thread of mine:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=173212

So no, they weren't a top line in the league. They were a league that had a hot start, until teams figured them out. That carried through to the playoffs, and then the next season, and then the next playoffs.

You can't be a top line in the league if your center isn't a top center.

[nixon45]

Treliving must be shown the door with Geoff Ward going right behind him.

I hate this team with a passion. I used to be so damn invested too. It's sad.