Time To Break Up Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm...?

[GranteedEV]

This line has not been very effective 5-on-5 since the All-Star Break and Bye Week. They've picked up some PP points here and there and Lindholm had some points on the Backlund line, but those only serve to mask the line's lack of success. It's tough to pinpoint exactly why.

Looking into their 5-on-5 statistics:

Time Frame		GP	TOI	CF/60	CA/60	CF%	FF/60	FA/60	FF%	SF/60	SA/60	SF%	GF/60	GA/60	GF%	SCF/60	SCA/60	SCF%	HDCF/60	HDCA/60	HDCF%	HDGF/60	HDGA/60	HDGF%	MDCF/60	MDCA/60	MDCF%	MDGF/60	MDGA/60	MDGF%	LDCF/60	LDCA/60	LDCF%	LDGF/60	LDGA/60	LDGF%	On-Ice SH%	On-IceSV%	PDO	OZoneFO/60	NZoneFO/60	DZoneFO/60			
Pre-Break On		51	570.7	61.39	49.28	55.47	46.08	39.25	54	33.26	28.01	54.29	4.2	2.57	62.07	30.17	25.95	53.76	13.07	11.19	53.87	2.22	1.8	55.19	17.12	14.76	53.7	1.35	0.45	75.18	25.84	19.82	56.59	0.63	0.32	65.99	12.64		90.83		1.035	28.18		26.6		19.24			
Post-Break On		15	151.4	59.58	57.86	50.73	43.28	43.71	49.75	30.43	31.75	48.94	2.04	3.26	38.54	29.25	26.23	52.72	9.29	11.44	44.82	1.61	1.29	55.6	19.91	14.8	57.36	0.43	0.4	51.94	27.86	26.43	51.32	0	1.54	0	6.71		89.75		0.965	26.15		29.32		23.77		
Pre-Break Off		51	1489.9	55.78	52.53	51.5	40.57	39.25	50.83	28.68	28.56	50.1	2.1	2.01	51.14	24.64	23.9	50.76	9.68	10.37	48.29	1.28	1.08	54.07	14.98	13.54	52.54	0.48	0.4	54.04	25.44	23.14	52.37	0.35	0.51	40.98	7.32		92.98		1.003	18.89		20.54		16.99			
Post-Break Off		15	442.8	66.72	51.41	56.48	48.95	38.72	55.83	34.53	26.16	56.89	3	2.15	58.22	31.71	24.22	56.7	12.5	9.18	57.65	1.73	1.19	59.17	19.19	15.04	56.06	0.56	0.54	50.99	31.35	22.64	58.07	0.69	0.42	62.45	8.68		91.78		1.005	18.83		18.16		17.07

A quick look at their goal numbers (GF/60, GA/60, GF%) supports our observations that they've not only been ineffective, but arguably even a liability on the ice as a line.

Their struggles are at least partially due to an increase defensive zone time. Their defensive zone shot against numbers (CA/60, FA/60, SA/60) appear to reflect this.

Their offensive zone high danger chance numbers (HDCF/60) also suggest a lack of really good opportunities.

Their PDO (SV% / SH%) is also down, but that's probably just the randomness of goal events at play.

Overall I don't feel this line is clicking lately and I'd like to see them separated at least for a while. In my opinion Monahan has been the weakest link over this stretch and could use some time apart from the other two, but if all three are to be separated I wouldn't mind that either.

[RichKlit]

Yup split them up.

[Vinny01]

Sure worth a shot.

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm could be an interesting line.

Bennett to the top line then? When is Neal back could be a good chance to let him hit the ground running by putting him right with Gaudreau and Monahan?

[tvp2003]

Yes, if anything to get some more chemistry with other players and to try and shake them out of their funk. You can keep them on PP1 and quite likely revert back once the playoffs hit, but if you're going to tinker and make a changes now's the time to do it.

[sempuki]

Monahan is obviously injured. I just hope it's not the wrist again.

[Matty81]

Monahan does look hurt again. If they break up the line I'd rather see something other than the old Tkachuk/Lindholm swap, Tkachuk has looked terrible lately too outside the powerplay and never seems like a good fit with Gaudreau and Monahan, not convinced that will do much except remove the one guy who is playing well lately from the line.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by sempuki

Monahan is obviously injured. I just hope it's not the wrist again.

I'm worried it is. He's not shooting anymore.

[calgaryfox]

The top line has needed a shake up since the Nylander and Matthews contract details were announced. When Lindholm isn't firing then the whole line is garbage. Teams have now figured Mononymous out. He is just a sniper and if you tie him up in the slot he is otherwise ineffective. Skates like he's wearing lead boots, no physicality or defensive brain and without the puck he is three parts useless. Johnny is trying too hard to compensate for him.

Johnny - Lindholm - Chucky.

[Jore]

Monahan does seem like the weakest right now. Crossposting my post from the practice day thread:

Tkachuk and Monahan haven't worked well together from what I've seen. Both guys rely on slowing the play down and finding teammates skating into space. Problem is you can't have two forwards doing that, leaving only one forward mobile and the target of the defence. I'd like to see them try Backlund with Gaudreau, Lindholm with Tkachuk and Monahan with Bennett.

[burn_this_city]

Johnny is the straw on that line and he hasn't been beating guys 1 on 1 or making the royal road passes like before. Now the opposition just swarms him on zone entry and he makes a poor pass or turns it over. Lindholm and Monahan have been business as usual for the most part, they just aren't getting the prime opportunities.

[Bleeding Red]

I'd like to see Lindholm at center for a whole game too.

I like that 13-28-19 line enough to give it a try.


13-28-19
77-23-93
67-11-27
88-10-21


Is Neal out until the playoffs?

[Split98]

I posted this earlier in the practice thread, but I would love to see this tried ahead of Neal coming back

Gaudreau - Monahan - Mangiapane
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Bennett

If Eatbread can't handle 1st line duties, this is the window Neal is going to need to grab. But right now, he's playing with the jam we need that top line to start carrying. I don't think Lindholm is the problem on that line, but he could be the solution to Tkachuk's problem and Mangiapane makes the most sense there (if not Czarnik or Ryan) given the past few games.


But yeah, for at least a few games that line needs some new scenery. The chemistry they had was powerful, but they seem pretty hamfisted out there.

I too am worried that Monahan is injured again. It seemed like he was hitting anything from anywhere for the first half of the season and it's rare you see a scoring chance off his stick lately. Shades of how he ended last year for sure.

I haven't liked the look of Tkachuk inserted on that line, so hopefully Peters is looking at another option against Vegas.

[Dx54]

This is what I would do-

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Neal
Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett
Jank-Backlund-Frolik
Hathaway-Ryan-Mangiapane/Czarnik

I really feel like moving Lindholm to center would do us wonders. Then you can have 2 legit scoring lines and have Backlund and Fro dedicated to the checking line.

[Matty81]

Monahan's not been playing great but hard to crap on the guy, he killed himself for the flaming C last year playing with multiple bad injuries and even if he's just a sniper, he's a damned good one and it's one of the toughest things to find in hockey.

I agree that sometimes it's just time for a shakeup.

Really like the first line when firing, Monahan shoots, Johnny carries and dishes and Lindholm retrieves pucks and pretty much does everything else passably.

Think if you move one off the line you want to replace the skillset... to me to closest guy to Monahan is Janko, he's got a great shot and also can join the rush quickly. Wouldn't mind seeing him get a shot there for a game and putting Bennett back with Tkachuk and Backlund. Though a potential Frolik-Monahan-Czarnik third line doesn't inspire a lot of confidence or probably send a great message to Monahan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Split98

I posted this earlier in the practice thread, but I would love to see this tried ahead of Neal coming back

Gaudreau - Monahan - Mangiapane
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Bennett

If Eatbread can't handle 1st line duties, this is the window Neal is going to need to grab. But right now, he's playing with the jam we need that top line to start carrying. I don't think Lindholm is the problem on that line, but he could be the solution to Tkachuk's problem and Mangiapane makes the most sense there (if not Czarnik or Ryan) given the past few games.


But yeah, for at least a few games that line needs some new scenery. The chemistry they had was powerful, but they seem pretty hamfisted out there.

I too am worried that Monahan is injured again. It seemed like he was hitting anything from anywhere for the first half of the season and it's rare you see a scoring chance off his stick lately. Shades of how he ended last year for sure.

I haven't liked the look of Tkachuk inserted on that line, so hopefully Peters is looking at another option against Vegas.

WADR, I think you are seeing things. Monahan has fired a few great shots that have been stopped over the past few games. There have been a lot of sticks on his shots though. I think the first line is just being checked really hard these days. They will have to find a way to break through it.

I do worry about Tkachuk on the line, because Lindholm was the defensive stalwart (with speed to get back to the offence as well). Tkachuk isn't that good defensively, and he's not fast.

[topfiverecords]

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Bennett
Tkachuk-Monahan-Czarnik/Jankowski
Frolik-Backlund-Czarnik/Jankowski
Mangiapane-Ryan-Hathaway

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Matty81

[...]Though a potential Frolik-Monahan-Czarnik third line doesn't inspire a lot of confidence or probably send a great message to Monahan.

No, but a Mangiapane-Monahan-Czarnik 3rd sounds just fine to me (short-term until Monahan is back to Monahan)

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I'd like to see Lindholm at center for a whole game too.

If I were doing the lines (obviously, I'm not) I would strongly consider both Lindholm and Bennett at 1C and 3C respectively. I think Jankowski and Monahan can do what they do while being alleviated of some responsibilities, especially if you put them with Backlund. So something like:

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Monahan - Backlund - Jankowski
Frolik - Bennett - Czarnik
Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway


And maybe swap Frolik and Eatbread. Ideally that's James Neal where I have Frolik slotted.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

WADR, I think you are seeing things. Monahan has fired a few great shots that have been stopped over the past few games. There have been a lot of sticks on his shots though. I think the first line is just being checked really hard these days. They will have to find a way to break through it.

I do worry about Tkachuk on the line, because Lindholm was the defensive stalwart (with speed to get back to the offence as well). Tkachuk isn't that good defensively, and he's not fast.

That is likely the answer, but he's consistently not putting much on net lately. His last game with over 2 SOG was Feb 9, and he was pretty reliably shooting 3-5 most of the season. Even at that (true, I could be seeing things differently) he doesn't seem to be very dangerous out there lately. That stretch also includes Florida, Ottawa and Arizona who you'd hope the 1st line could overcome.

Better defending or entirely due to Gaudreau's struggles, but it feels enough like the way Monahan struggled last season to at least be a little worried that he's banged up again.

You can slash the glove right off a guy or break a guys wrist in this league and get away with it. I wouldn't be surprised if he's been tagged a few times.

[Looch City]

Send them to the minors.