[GDT] Canucks @ Flames, 8:00 PM MT (Sportsnet 1/Sportsnet Pacific / Fan 960)

[Harry Lime]

I just want Bennett to be traded so I can find out who will be in the doghouse next. We should set up some odds.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I just want Bennett to be traded so I can find out who will be in the doghouse next. We should set up some odds.

Tkachuk @ 2:1

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think this is a pretty naive view of how coaches coach and GMs manage. The coach is not going to construct lineups on the basis of perceived trade value, and a GM is not going to expect him to. Besides, I tend to think players values are much more static than a lot of people seem to imagine. NHL GMs already know who Bennett is and how he plays. A few more games on Monahan's wing is not going to suddenly cause them to fall all over themselves to acquire him. At this point, he is not getting moved until at least the trade deadline, and I suspect most likely not until the offseason.

I tend to agree with this. I'm pretty sure Bennett's trade value is not going to increase (or even decrease for that matter) based on who he plays with for the next few games, and I'm going to say even for the rest of the season. A team acquiring Bennett is banking on what they know about his raw skill, based on years of scouting dating back to junior, with the hope that they can help him take the next step.

Ward's only job is to ice the best lineup that gives us the best chance to win. The underlying stats show that Bennett doesn't play very well with Johnny and Mony and that's why he isn't playing there now.

As an aside....I would describe Bennett as a "chaotic" player. I think he is perceived to generate chances because he takes the puck (and himself) straight to the net. But I don't think they are actually dangerous chances because Bennett is either falling down or losing control of the puck as he's doing so. It only looks dangerous because people freak out when the puck is near the net. He doesn't use his linemates particularly well and he occasionally gets a weak shot off.

[djsFlames]

This pre game conversation sucks.

Go Flames go!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Exactly, this isn't that hard.

You have 3 pairs of players that work well together, and one trio of players that looks amazing together whenever played together.

Keep those groups together!

Then you just fill in the three empty spots with filler from the Leivo, Simon, Nordstrom, Ryan (when healthy), Gawdin, Phillips, Robinson, etc group, and hope that the GM can make a move to bring in one legitimate RW at the trade deadline to fill one of the spots.

Issue we have is our coach seems to think that Nordstrom and Froese are so amazing that they can't come out of the lineup and need to stay in the lineup (Narrator Voice: They aren't that amazing)

I certainly haven't looked around the whole league, but I just don't know if any teams are rolling four lines to that extent.

It looks good on paper, but if you get into a special teams game you end up with some pretty strange utilization.

I could be wrong though ...

Assuming I'm right, then you have to go back to the top nine again, and that's where it gets sticky.

Lindholm, Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Mangiapane all have to be there ... that's 6

Dube, Lucic and Bennett are my next three if you can find a way to get them onto the the three lines and I think that's the challenge.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - X
Gaudreau - Monahan - X
Lucic - Backlund - Mangiapane

I'm all for trying Bennett with Tkachuk and Lindholm, I didn't like Dube there.

Then you have a fourth line that hopefully can all kill penalties. Nordstrom is already doing it, can Simon?

And Leivo is the forgotten man in this case (he's been a healthy scratch any way).

[gt4flames]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

LMAO

Straight up trolling the Canucks at this point with their former MVP playing every game against them.

Markstrom apparently asked the coaching staff to play every game against the Canucks.

Savage.

[Robbob]

I know they tried Backlund on the wing and it didn't fair well, but what about playing him with Johnny and Monahan. Kind of Lindholm lite.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I just want Bennett to be traded so I can find out who will be in the doghouse next. We should set up some odds.

Choose one out of the following.
Gaudreau
Tkachuk
Backlund
Monahan

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I know they tried Backlund on the wing and it didn't fair well, but what about playing him with Johnny and Monahan. Kind of Lindholm lite.

I believe he doesn’t want to play wing. He had gone and spoken to ward about that during the experiment on wing last year. He got moved back to center and he has been solid there ever since

[GranteedEV]

Is our penalty kill even all that much better with Nordstrom vs anyone else? I feel like his so-called PK impact is just confirmation bias

[hwy19man]

Pregame links
http://sportsstats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl...review_10.html
http://sportsstats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl...ummary_10.html
https://scores.nbcsports.com/nhl/pre...&home=3&vis=22

[motorcrosser]

Betting sites are now offering odds on which period the Flams will show up in.

[AC]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Is our penalty kill even all that much better with Nordstrom vs anyone else? I feel like his so-called PK impact is just confirmation bias

PP goals allowed:

5-on-3:
Backlund, Gio, Tanev
Lindholm, Gio, Tanev

5-on-4:
Backlund, Lindholm, Gio, Tanev
Backlund, Ryan, Valimaki, Nesterov
Nordstrom, Mangi, Gio, Tanev
Backlund, Mangi, Valimaki, Nesterov
Backlund, Ryan, Gio, Tanev
Backlund, Nordstrom, Tanev, Hanifin
Lindholm, Froese, Valimaki, Nesterov
Lindholm, Nordstrom, Tanev, Nesterov
Monahan, Froese, Andersson, Hanifin

GA/60 while shorthanded for our penalty killing forwards:
Froese 22.8
Monahan 22.0 (skewed by his 8 second TOI average and the 1 goal against)
Backlund 10.4
Nordstrom 6.5
Ryan 6.0
Lindholm 4.6
Mangiapane 4.4

With Ryan and Backlund out, Nordstrom is a must on the PK, and probably even with both healthy realistically.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by gt4flames

Markstrom apparently asked the coaching staff to play every game against the Canucks.

Savage.

You might be reading too much into that. Could be strictly business

He’s super familiar with their offense and their shooters tendencies

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I just want Bennett to be traded so I can find out who will be in the doghouse next. We should set up some odds.

It's not just about being in the doghouse
It's the player who will divide the community to such a degree that their name seeps into every discussion and every thread.
It's called The Jankowski Standard.

Impact players get debated all the time. The Jankowski Standard is reserved for players for which the discussion is not proportional to their impact (good or bad) on games or the team. Or a young player not being given adequate opportunity according to some. Though that's more accurately defined as The Boyd Effect.

On that basis, my candidates for The Jankowski Standard are:
- Oliver Kylington
- Chris Tanev
- Josh Leivo

With outside chances of Matthew Philips or Glen Gadwin working into the mix.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Typically waiver wire fodder don't have much of a case when it comes to asking for a trade. Weirdest player I can remember because he's there and you can see his ice time so he played but there's just nothing going on good or bad and you could be excused for not even knowing that he played after watching the game from beginning to end. Maybe the most uneventful player ever. It's line Johnny and Monahan have a winger but not really.

Yet that, "waiver wire fodder" had 10 more points than Sam Bennett last season.

So what leg does Sam have to stand on? A 12 point player asking for a trade. That's exactly why the malcontent is still on this team.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Maybe he’s better at getting them out of the zone, is what I’m asking. It’s not all about the offensive zone plays.

Expected Goals Against/60

Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
2.36 xGA

Gaudreau - Monahan - Simon
2.58 xGA

uh...

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's not just about being in the doghouse
It's the player who will divide the community to such a degree that their name seeps into every discussion and every thread.
It's called The Jankowski Standard.

Impact players get debated all the time. The Jankowski Standard is reserved for players for which the discussion is not proportional to their impact (good or bad) on games or the team. Or a young player not being given adequate opportunity according to some. Though that's more accurately defined as The Boyd Effect.

On that basis, my candidates for The Jankowski Standard are:
- Oliver Kylington
- Chris Tanev
- Josh Leivo

With outside chances of Matthew Philips or Glen Gadwin working into the mix.

Hey, you can't have a thread on CP without a discussion of Jankowski. Except, of course, if it's a Janko thread.

[gt4flames]

Originally Posted by neo45

You might be reading too much into that. Could be strictly business

He’s super familiar with their offense and their shooters tendencies

Reading to much into it? As a competitor he probably wants to show up his buddies...I know when I played against my friends I always wanted to dominate them at a different level.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I certainly haven't looked around the whole league, but I just don't know if any teams are rolling four lines to that extent.

It looks good on paper, but if you get into a special teams game you end up with some pretty strange utilization.

I could be wrong though ...

Assuming I'm right, then you have to go back to the top nine again, and that's where it gets sticky.

Lindholm, Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Mangiapane all have to be there ... that's 6

Dube, Lucic and Bennett are my next three if you can find a way to get them onto the the three lines and I think that's the challenge.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - X
Gaudreau - Monahan - X
Lucic - Backlund - Mangiapane

I'm all for trying Bennett with Tkachuk and Lindholm, I didn't like Dube there.

Then you have a fourth line that hopefully can all kill penalties. Nordstrom is already doing it, can Simon?

And Leivo is the forgotten man in this case (he's been a healthy scratch any way).

I don't know looking around the league at 5v5 most teams average between 45-48 minutes per game.

So far this year the Flames have averaged ~46 minutes at 5V5, with the top 3 centers playing the following splits.

Lindholm is playing 13:22 TOI/GP
Monahan is playing 12:50 TOI/GP
Backlund is playing 11:53 TOI/GP

Thats about 38 minutes of TOI between those three, which leaves 8 minutes for the 4th line.

So really if you want to balance it out that means one fewer shift per game for each of Lindholm, Monahan, Backlund to give the Bennett line more time.

Lindholm: 12:30 TOI/GP
Monahan: 11:30 TOI/GP
Backlund: 11:30 TOI/GP
Bennett: 10:30 TOI/GP

That's 46 minutes of TOI at 5v5 per game distributed between the four lines. As I mentioned it's one fewer shift through the rotation for Lindholm, Monahan, and Backlund on average vs what they are playing today. Looking at a team like Tampa Bay that rolls 4 lines and it's pretty close to how they distribute their ice time among their 4 lines.

And then you can always shorten the bench if you don't feel like your guys are getting enough TOI.

If you start the game like this:

Tkachuk-Lindholm- ?
Gaudreau - Monahan - ?
Mangiapane - Backlund - ?
Lucic - Bennett - Dube

Then it's really easy for that forward group to become this for the third period:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Bennett - Dube

with the three ?'s riding the bench for the third period.