[GDT] Canucks @ Flames, 8:00 PM MT (Sportsnet 1/Sportsnet Pacific / Fan 960)

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by shadowlord

I guess when the Lucic-Bennett-Dube line scores 2 goals in a 4-3 win, it's not worthy of being given another look.



Also Geoff Ward (probably): "Better break up that line."

My grandfather was a wise man, he raised me to follow 3 simple rules:

1. Respect your elders
2. Be polite
3. Never trust anyone named Jeff if spelled with a G(eoff)

Ward is completely lost, these lineup decisions are a joke.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Tkachuk tries so many bizarre plays and passes that I think the only guy with the skill and awareness to actually complement him is Gaudreau. I’ve also wanted to see him on the right side for years.

I’d like to see:
Tkachuk - Backlund - Gaudreau
Mangiapane - Monahan - Lindholm
Lucic - Bennett - Dube

I’ve always thought about Tkachuk’s wasted passes to no one in particular in the slot would be perfect with Monahan because that’s where he lives. But you then need a better two way guy on the other wing, because Tkachuk’s defence is bad and Monahan’s while better than before, isn’t elite or anything and his skating (and Tkachuk’s) is so limited. So Dube maybe.

Your other problem is the use of Lindholm on the wing, which you kinda have to do with the other combos.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by The Professor

That's pretty interesting actually. Although our two set-up guys are together, and our two snipers are together. Notwithstanding sniper Gaudreau...

Yeah his change in style is what has me thinking about it. Backlund also meshes well with Tkachuk. But I’ll be honest in that I had no idea what to do with our top 3 centres when I wrote down Tkachuk and Gaudreau.... not sure Monahan is good for the wing and Lindholm has been one of our best and most consistent players at C. It’s tricky.

[GioforPM]

Does someone have the numbers for Gaudreau/Monahan with Bennett v. Simon v. Leivo? My only explanation for that usage is that somehow Simon brings something defensively or that they simply have better possession numbers.

Monahan/Gaudreau’s biggest issue to me is how often they get stuck in their own zone. Do they exit better with Simon versus Leivo or Bennett?

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Bingo

With Backlund back they have to make a change. I don't think Backlund is going to the fourth line.

So to me that line was going to break up if you want to leave Tkachuk with Lindholm and Monahan with Gaudreau.

The Bennett vs Simon argument is a fair one though.

Plus how often have we seen morning skate lines that don't end up being what they go with either off the hop, or early in the game?

The Simon thing is the whole problem.

The top 9 seems so obvious, why even mess around in morning if you aren't going to use it.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Does someone have the numbers for Gaudreau/Monahan with Bennett v. Simon v. Leivo? My only explanation for that usage is that somehow Simon brings something defensively or that they simply have better possession numbers.

Monahan/Gaudreau’s biggest issue to me is how often they get stuck in their own zone. Do they exit better with Simon versus Leivo or Bennett?

They don't even pass to Simon so I'd be shocked if advance stats say he's a positive.

[SnipeShow]

As usual, I'm excited to watch some hockey and hoping they come out with a solid effort. Although why is it another 8pm start, when it's here this time? I don't think starting 6pm Vancouver time would be unbearable for their fans. I feel like we have started earlier to accommodate an eastern team here and there. Not the end of the world but I really prefer a 6 or 7 start time.

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Ward is a bad coach if he actually goes forward with these lines - just unexplainable.

Honestly there are so many better alternatives to what he is doing here.

Option 1: Roll 4 lines instead of having a horrible 4th line

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Leivo
Gaudreau - Monahan - Simon
Mangiapane - Backlund - Nordstrom
Lucic - Bennett - Dube

I don't like this any better, honestly. Nordstrom should not be playing anywhere but the fourth line.

Honestly I guarantee he's just doing this because he like's what Froese has brought to the lineup and wants to keep him in.

I think this is what is going on. Ward wants to keep Froese in the lineup, and he believes it is better balanced with Bennett playing there. He clearly likes to shuffle his lines a lot, but the results so far have been pretty good when he does so. I would say that the changes have worked out more often than not this season.

[GioforPM]

I suppose the argument he might make is that he doesn’t want a completely useless 4th line. However, I think Froese and Nordstrom are at least capable of holding the fort for a shift while the others rest. They aren’t too bad defensively.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Does someone have the numbers for Gaudreau/Monahan with Bennett v. Simon v. Leivo? My only explanation for that usage is that somehow Simon brings something defensively or that they simply have better possession numbers.

Monahan/Gaudreau’s biggest issue to me is how often they get stuck in their own zone. Do they exit better with Simon versus Leivo or Bennett?

With Leivo
31 minutes
50% CF
57% xGF

With Bennett
47 minutes
43% CF
44% xGF

With Simon
54 minutes
50% CF
54% XGF

The two without any of the three
46 minutes
59% CF
57% xGF

Bennett with Monahan and Gaudreau have improved in recent games, but he has the poorest results with them season to date.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DJones

They don't even pass to Simon so I'd be shocked if advance stats say he's a positive.

Maybe he’s better at getting them out of the zone, is what I’m asking. It’s not all about the offensive zone plays.

I’m just asking because there was a narrative early on that they played best with him on the line (at the time it was comparing to Leivo though).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by SnipeShow

As usual, I'm excited to watch some hockey and hoping they come out with a solid effort. Although why is it another 8pm start, when it's here this time? I don't think starting 6pm Vancouver time would be unbearable for their fans. I feel like we have started earlier to accommodate an eastern team here and there. Not the end of the world but I really prefer a 6 or 7 start time.

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

As noted above the start times are set by the networks because this is a national game. If this was a regional team then the start time would be 1900 local. It is not a slight on the market nor some attempt to placate the West Coast fanbase. This is about the Wednesday Night Hockey telecast.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I suppose the argument he might make is that he doesn’t want a completely useless 4th line. However, I think Froese and Nordstrom are at least capable of holding the fort for a shift while the others rest. They aren’t too bad defensively.

Nordstrom is a very "interesting" hockey player.

He's very very good when he's stuck in his own zone. He's aggressive on the puck carrier, blocks shots, blocks passes and does whatever it takes.

But sadly he's terrible at everything else.

If you pass it to him he'll have it go off his stick. If he's on the forecheck he takes the wrong route and arrives too late.

He literally should never have the puck.

But I get it ... not a bad specialist on the bench. Great at killing penalties, and great at shutting down the game in the last minute with the opposition goalie out.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

With Leivo
31 minutes
50% CF
57% xGF

With Bennett
47 minutes
43% CF
44% xGF

With Simon
54 minutes
50% CF
54% XGF

The two without any of the three
46 minutes
59% CF
57% xGF

Bennett with Monahan and Gaudreau have improved in recent games, but he has the poorest results with them season to date.

Hmmm - this has to be the reason. That’s a pretty big difference. It seems counter to the eye test, but I think people are forgetting how often the Monahan line gets stuck in their own zone, and maybe Bennett isn’t as big an asset as some think when it comes to that. You have to leave your own zone in order to get to the other.

[Gaskal]

The intent on keeping Lindholm at center kind of throws the lineup into a bit of a funk.

But, if you use him as RW - you can immediately bring back the Purple Gatorade line.

Then bring back the MMA line. Tkachuk is so much better helping this team on a shutdown line and being in that defensive , high percentage play mindset. Being relied upon heavily for offence means he goes for the 'sexy' scoring play more rather than just sliding the puck into the corner for one of his linemates.

The Lucic Playoff line of course.

Then the leftover players could make a somewhat passible 4th line. But eh, what do I know.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DJones

They don't even pass to Simon so I'd be shocked if advance stats say he's a positive.

Are you now shocked?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

With Backlund back they have to make a change. I don't think Backlund is going to the fourth line.

So to me that line was going to break up if you want to leave Tkachuk with Lindholm and Monahan with Gaudreau.

The Bennett vs Simon argument is a fair one though.

Plus how often have we seen morning skate lines that don't end up being what they go with either off the hop, or early in the game?

They have to make a change, doesn't excuse the completely ridiculous line combinations he put out there this morning though.

They could easily actually run with 4 strong lines though and it's not that hard to do from a TOI perspective either.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Leivo: 12-13 minutes
Gaudreau - Monahan - Simon: 11-12 minutes
Mangiapane - Backlund - Nordstrom (I'd have somebody else here (Gawdin/Phillips) but coach isn't taking Nordstrom out of the lineup): 11-12 minutes
Lucic- Bennett - Dube : 10-11 minutes

And then if you end up down in the third and need to shorten the bench there is a super simple way to execute on that too.

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Lucic - Bennett - Dube

Simon/Leivo/Nordstrom sit.

Super easy way to start the game more balanced with more depth across all 4 lines, and then if you need to get a spark or get a goal you load up your top 6 with our 6 best forwards and go back to the lines from last years playoffs.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't like this any better, honestly. Nordstrom should not be playing anywhere but the fourth line.

Honestly I agree and personally I would take him out of the lineup for one of Gawdin or Phillips. But the coach would never do that and I think he can fit on that line, he provides no offense but he's good below the goal line and on the cycle which is where that line excels.

[Coach]

Bring back Hudler. I don't even care that he's fueled by cocaine and rage.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hmmm - this has to be the reason. That’s a pretty big difference. It seems counter to the eye test, but I think people are forgetting how often the Monahan line gets stuck in their own zone, and maybe Bennett isn’t as big an asset as some think when it comes to that. You have to leave your own zone in order to get to the other.

Actual goal splits ...

Bennett 3-1
Simon 3-1
Leivo 0-2

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

...Then bring back the MMA line. Tkachuk is so much better helping this team on a shutdown line and being in that defensive , high percentage play mindset. Being relied upon heavily for offence means he goes for the 'sexy' scoring play more rather than just sliding the puck into the corner for one of his linemates...

I think it is worth helping him to learn how to do this. The Lindholm · Tkachuk pair looked really good in the first couple game, so I think they have it in them to get back there. And Tkachuk is smart enough of a player to figure it out, so I get why they keep trotting them out together even while they are struggling right now. But if and when Tkachuk figures out how to play effectively in this situation, then this creates all sorts of options for the team.