[News] All-encompassing Bennett trade discussions thread

[Red]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Hartley hockey may have been exciting, but he was a bully. He pitted the room against certain players. This coaching style wouldn't last long in today's world.

Ya he was tough on the players and super funny to the press. He knew how to read a crowd.

As for longevity. We have had 3 coaches in the last 4 seasons and are already paving the road for a 4th. Heartley's 2 season tenure seems like a lifetime gig around these parts.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Red

Ya he was tough on the players and super funny to the press. He knew how to read a crowd.

As for longevity. We have had 3 coaches in the last 4 seasons and are already paving the road for a 4th. Heartley's 2 season tenure seems like a lifetime gig around these parts.

Hartley actually lasted 4 seasons

2013- lockout shortened tear down year
2014- year 1 rebuild/Monahan rookie year
2015- playoff series win and Gaudreau’s rookie year
2016- Hamilton’s first year in Calgary/bottom 5 finish

[Owen15]

Wouldn’t it ultimately be better for the Flames to just play out this year with Bennett and not qualify him? I’d take a year of Benny over a crapola return for him. Even knowing he’s gone at the end of this year.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Half kidding here but it should be an auto ban to bring up old coaches wishing for a retread.

I'm referring to D Sutter specifically. He's not Scotty Bowman, never was, isn't coming back and if he did, would not be as successful as people think.

Discussing why a coach was let go is fine but even then, I recall TONS of people saying Hartley was a bad coach who caught lightning in a bottle and his teams were going to regress hard due to our terrible team defence. .

Since you brought up Darryl Sutter, I will object to the minimizing of his achievements.

I haven't seen anyone equating Sutter to Bowman so that is a silly strawman. Sutter was a great coach for every organization he was with. HHOF worthy IMO but the criteria for admitting coaches seems entirely inconsistent.

[Owen15]

I might even qualify him at the end of the year and expose him to Seattle. Then trade him or make a move that benefits the team.

I know the organization wants to take the high road and take care of the players.

But maybe get a bit selfish for a change.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Since you brought up Darryl Sutter, I will object to the minimizing of his achievements.

I haven't seen anyone equating Sutter to Bowman so that is a silly strawman. Sutter was a great coach for every organization he was with. HHOF worthy IMO but the criteria for admitting coaches seems entirely inconsistent.

No, multiple other people brought up Sutter. I responded.

It isn't a strawman to say he's not Scotty Bowman. That's not what a strawman is. It's a comparison. It's me saying he's not Scotty Bowman.

Not sure what any of that has to do with the content of my post, which wasn't at all about minimalizing Sutter's accomplishments. It was about the fact he's retired, isn't likely to ever coach here and even if he did, wouldn't be likely to live up to expectations.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Ya he was tough on the players and super funny to the press. He knew how to read a crowd.

As for longevity. We have had 3 coaches in the last 4 seasons and are already paving the road for a 4th. Heartley's 2 season tenure seems like a lifetime gig around these parts.

Yeah, his two-faced nature is part of why I dislike him. Mr. Jovial in front of the cameras, and not just tough, but an actual a-hole to the players. I would have respected him more if he was a Sutter - gruff to everyone.

[dammage79]

I don't think Tree gets another coaching hire. So if this fails, there's going to be some pretty substantial changes.

I also think we are stuck with this management group for at least 1 full 82 game season post covid. With the organization saying covid seasons don't count.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Owen15

I might even qualify him at the end of the year and expose him to Seattle. Then trade him or make a move that benefits the team.

I know the organization wants to take the high road and take care of the players.

But maybe get a bit selfish for a change.

You have to consider how the other players feel about Bennett though.

He wants off the team because he is not getting good opportunities here. That translates to him saying that the players he has been playing with in Calgary are not good enough for him. And they are the reason for his lower earnings and league status. How does a guy likeDerek Ryan like seeing that?

The human factor there is the main reason why teams dont like to hold on to guys like that. It's toxic no matter who the player is. He is indirectly implying that his linemates are junk and the coach is crap for not seeing that.
These guys have been fed the "no I in team" since they were 5 years old. Right or wrong, Sam put himself above the team.

Too bad because I really like the guy. Perfect 4th liner, if not overpaid.

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by Red

You have to consider how the other players feel about Bennett though.

He wants off the team because he is not getting good opportunities here. That translates to him saying that the players he has been playing with in Calgary are not good enough for him. And they are the reason for his lower earnings and league status. How does a guy likeDerek Ryan like seeing that?

The human factor there is the main reason why teams dont like to hold on to guys like that. It's toxic no matter who the player is. He is indirectly implying that his linemates are junk and the coach is crap for not seeing that.
These guys have been fed the "no I in team" since they were 5 years old. Right or wrong, Sam put himself above the team.

Too bad because I really like the guy. Perfect 4th liner, if not overpaid.

I love this guy... but I can’t recall 1 impactful play so far this year.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Owen15

I love this guy... but I can’t recall 1 impactful play so far this year.

here are a few:

- a backcheck hit in one of the Jets games to save a goal after Monahan(?) coughed the puck up in the offensive zone

- a pass from behind the net to set up backlund in the slot in one of the montreal games. Backlund missed the net though

- a pass on the rush to spring backlund on the opposite wing. Backlund missed the net... again

[aaronkarlpatton]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I don't think Tree gets another coaching hire. So if this fails, there's going to be some pretty substantial changes.

I also think we are stuck with this management group for at least 1 full 82 game season post covid. With the organization saying covid seasons don't count.

Just as a thought, I would love to see a big time hockey player type trade. I would suggest (since I think I need to get bigger and tougher and more skilled) a Johnny hockey/Bennett to Washington for Wilson/McMichael type trade.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Red

You have to consider how the other players feel about Bennett though.

He wants off the team because he is not getting good opportunities here. That translates to him saying that the players he has been playing with in Calgary are not good enough for him. And they are the reason for his lower earnings and league status. How does a guy likeDerek Ryan like seeing that?

The human factor there is the main reason why teams dont like to hold on to guys like that. It's toxic no matter who the player is. He is indirectly implying that his linemates are junk and the coach is crap for not seeing that.
These guys have been fed the "no I in team" since they were 5 years old. Right or wrong, Sam put himself above the team.

Too bad because I really like the guy. Perfect 4th liner, if not overpaid.

I disagree with this. Friction in the dressing room won't be from Bennett against his fellow players. Most players want to play and the fact that Bennett has grown and played with these guys for 7 years, I'd say it's more likely they have his back and support him more than they would be on the side of the coaches.

You can say the same thing if certain players would rather play with Bennett but gets strapped to a guy like a Lucic or Simon. If anything I would say it causes dissention between players to coaches because most players can relate to Bennett, most players feel they may not have the opportunity or not utilized to their best abilities.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I disagree with this. Friction in the dressing room won't be from Bennett against his fellow players. Most players want to play and the fact that Bennett has grown and played with these guys for 7 years, I'd say it's more likely they have his back and support him more than they would be on the side of the coaches.

You can say the same thing if certain players would rather play with Bennett but gets strapped to a guy like a Lucic or Simon. If anything I would say it causes dissention between players to coaches because most players can relate to Bennett, most players feel they may not have the opportunity or not utilized to their best abilities.

I think you are projecting your own feelings and those from some of the fanbase onto the players by assuming that they are all champing at the bit to play with Bennett over the prospect of being saddled with Lucic or Simon. I am sceptical that anyone on the roster is actually feeling this way.

[Roof-Daddy]

I have been a die hard Tre supporter.

I just don't care anymore what the reason is, he just doesn't seem to be getting it figured out.

Either:

1. The sum isn't the whole of it's parts
2. The parts aren't as good as we think they are
3. A bit of both

In the end one of the most frustrating things is, we will likely never get to see this rebuilds "core" perform under an actual, real, proven NHL head coach. If they had gotten a guy like Vigneault for example, and still been this inconsistent, soft as butter, pathetically average group of wannabee's, then we'd know straight up that the core was never good enough. Now we'll never really know.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

here are a few:

- a backcheck hit in one of the Jets games to save a goal after Monahan(?) coughed the puck up in the offensive zone

- a pass from behind the net to set up backlund in the slot in one of the montreal games. Backlund missed the net though

- a pass on the rush to spring backlund on the opposite wing. Backlund missed the net... again

well, he is a professional hockey player. He should be able to do some things well every once and a while.

9 games, 1 assist.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I don't think Tree gets another coaching hire. So if this fails, there's going to be some pretty substantial changes.

I also think we are stuck with this management group for at least 1 full 82 game season post covid. With the organization saying covid seasons don't count.

Totally agree except that I, sadly, believe it's when this fails not if. And it will be so Flames to go this year and next just floating in obscurity, then losing Johnny for nothing or spare parts. At which point we will be forced into a massive retool if not full on rebuild.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

here are a few:

- a backcheck hit in one of the Jets games to save a goal after Monahan(?) coughed the puck up in the offensive zone

- a pass from behind the net to set up backlund in the slot in one of the montreal games. Backlund missed the net though

- a pass on the rush to spring backlund on the opposite wing. Backlund missed the net... again

Coach: We're gonna sit ya.
Sam: But Coach, what about that Monny giveaway I backchecked on, and the time I fed Backs the puck from behind the net? Speaking of Backs, remember that one pass I made to him when he took off down the ice?
Coach: In EIGHT games?
Sam: Alright, ya... fair enough.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Half kidding here but it should be an auto ban to bring up old coaches wishing for a retread.

I'm referring to D Sutter specifically. He's not Scotty Bowman, never was, isn't coming back and if he did, would not be as successful as people think.

Discussing why a coach was let go is fine but even then, I recall TONS of people saying Hartley was a bad coach who caught lightning in a bottle and his teams were going to regress hard due to our terrible team defence. .

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

No, multiple other people brought up Sutter. I responded.

It isn't a strawman to say he's not Scotty Bowman. That's not what a strawman is. It's a comparison. It's me saying he's not Scotty Bowman.

Not sure what any of that has to do with the content of my post, which wasn't at all about minimalizing Sutter's accomplishments. It was about the fact he's retired, isn't likely to ever coach here and even if he did, wouldn't be likely to live up to expectations.

So why did you bring up a comparison to Scotty Bowman and what does that have to do with whether Darryl Sutter would be a good coach for the Flames currently?

[zamler]

Well there you have it, if we can't get prime Bowman no use in trying.