[PGT] Flames lose 4-1 to Winnipeg; lose Ryan to injury

[868904]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

...

Point
Kucherov
Johnson
Gourde
Coleman

"never win"

I don't believe size is the issue you are making it out to be considering the defending champs are hardly the biggest team.

I hope we bring in guys like Phillips and Zavgorodny.

Do we have a Point or Kucherov?

Lightning got their asses beat every year because they were too small and soft. Last year, they finally added size and toughness in Bogosian, Maroon, Goodrow, Coleman and they finally won. Guess who's followed that recipe this year? The Leafs and Canadiens. Guess where they are in the standings?

Name the last small team to win a championship.

I'm not saying you just go out and add size, you need to add "Size with Skill".

[TheScorpion]

The Lightning made the SCF in 2015 and the ECF in 2018

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The Lightning made the SCF in 2015 and the ECF in 2018

And a Stanley cup in 2020

[calgarywinning]

Worst flames game all season. That is all.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

Worst flames game all season. That is all.

Hopefully.

[midniteowl]

Heading to bed, and I'm praying to God when I wake up tomorrow, Ward is fired and D Sutter is hired.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Heading to bed, and I'm praying to God when I wake up tomorrow, Ward is fired and D Sutter is hired.

Are you really going to sleep that long?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by 868904

Do we have a Point or Kucherov?

Lightning got their asses beat every year because they were too small and soft. Last year, they finally added size and toughness in Bogosian, Maroon, Goodrow, Coleman and they finally won. Guess who's followed that recipe this year? The Leafs and Canadiens. Guess where they are in the standings?

Name the last small team to win a championship.

I'm not saying you just go out and add size, you need to add "Size with Skill".

They literally dont have to play any other team in the leugue. Only the same 6 teams day in and out. Same with Calgary. Which has a massive bearing how any Canadian team performs this year. When you don't have to compete against 24 other teams this year. No team will play outside their division until the semi finals and finals. Also wouldn't say they got their asses beat year in year out considering it was only the one year vs Columbus.

[Huntingwhale]

At least that 2 on 0 save by Markstrom was amazing. His best save of the season. Not often you see a goalie make a save on 2 on 0 but he made it look easy.

Feels like the Flames are going to waste this season now that they finally have elite goaltending. Just once I wish it would all come together; elite goalie, high flying offensive forwards, elite D, good coaching. Seems like every season for the past 20 years it's 1 or 2 out of 4 of those qualities, or none at all. Imagine all 4 of those areas coming together for a nice 5-10 year run ala Blackhawks...

*Sigh*. The life of a Flames fan. Still 2nd last in the division with a date with the Oilers Saturday who are starting to heat up themselves.

Looking forward to seeing McD and Drai rip us a new one
/s

[gt4flames]

**Takes a deep breath***

I had a long diatribe typed out about what’s going on....none of it was anything that hasn’t been said already.

...Something that came to mind was was Jj.Watt said to Deshaun Watson this year after he threw up crazy stats for an aweful team.

“Sorry we wasted one of your years”

The flames have wasted so many years of rare players it’s shocking.

The wasted Vezina season from kipper.
Pick whichever wasted Iginla season is easiest to stomach.
Gio Norris season

There are quite a few borderline that could be argued (rookie phaneuf, 39/82 camalleri, 99 pt Johnny.....)

[Erick Estrada]

Pinder is lighting up Ward this morning. He's making all the points we are in that the Flames are getting out coached on a nightly basis and all the questionable personnel decisions. The Flames issues are pretty obvious. It's a team that's just not playing well and responding to bad coaching.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's the thing. Even if you think this is all on the players is there anyone here that actually thinks this team is playing the type of system that's going to lead to success? Really? Are fans really happy with the play 5 on 5 and the player deployment at key times in games? Be honest with yourselves. This is a bad situation here as the players aren't playing well and they also aren't being put in a situation that's going to lead to success.

Fan being pretty honest in their opinions. Getting pretty sick of the game radio broadcast team. Last night, they were trying to point this to "coaches still trying instill a new system ","so many new guys in the room", oh and "no camp, it's only 10 game".

Loubardias is terrible. Stop asking yourself questions before answering questions.. Give an honest opinion. I don't care about "good guys", "good in the good room", b.s. Man, nobody gives a crap about that.

If your a pro analyst, analyze the game and share an honest opinion already.

[madmike]

At this point I'm beginning to think this organization needs a complete reset from the GM on down. This team hasn't been fun to watch since Feaster/Hartley, which says a lot about the job Treliving has done.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Dion

We don't have the offensive guns to compete in this division. No elite center or winger puts us at a disadvantage.

really all a team needs once they hit the playoffs is an elite goalie performance.

Flames this year have the luxury of being able to count on that, so there isn't the same urgency they normally would have to fix things. there is plenty of time.

Personally, if I was an crash and bang energy player, I'd find it difficult to have the same energy in an empty building. has to be really hard to adjust to no fans.

[kyuss275]

I hate to write this, but I think they should go back to original lines that they were using in playoffs. Johnny and Mony have been playing very well. This is the best I’ve seen mony play a 200’ game since joining the league. They need Lindholm back , instead of playing 2 great players with a scrub. Tkachuk needs to find his game and he has chemistry with Backlund. Putt Bennett back at center on 3rd line. Lucic said last year he fed off Dubes young energy. Fourth line can be leivo , Ryan and Nordstrom. Simon should be on taxi squad. I don’t think he will be in NHL next year.

[Tsawwassen]

Post game links
https://scores.nbcsports.com/nhl/rec...=03&final=true
http://sportsstats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl...cap133752.html

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I hate to write this, but I think they should go back to original lines that they were using in playoffs. Johnny and Mony have been playing very well. This is the best I’ve seen mony play a 200’ game since joining the league. They need Lindholm back , instead of playing 2 great players with a scrub. Tkachuk needs to find his game and he has chemistry with Backlund. Putt Bennett back at center on 3rd line. Lucic said last year he fed off Dubes young energy. Fourth line can be leivo , Ryan and Nordstrom. Simon should be on taxi squad. I don’t think he will be in NHL next year.

Lucic - Bennett - Dube was great in the playoffs, and we haven’t even seen it this season.

Over-coaching. Especially with how rotten Backlund has been all season, Lucic - Bennett - Dube should have been given a chance.

Ward is just junk though (as is our forward depth).

[Red]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

...

Point
Kucherov
Johnson
Gourde
Coleman

"never win"

I don't believe size is the issue you are making it out to be considering the defending champs are hardly the biggest team.

I hope we bring in guys like Phillips and Zavgorodny.

You dont have to be the biggest to win. You just have to be big enough to not get outmuscled time and time again. Hockey, especially playoff hockey is about winning puck battles. We are losing them all over the ice.

The Flames top forwards are as soft a group as one can be. Tkachuk is the only one that can hold his own, but he is usually busy watching out for retribution. His head is everywhere, but the game. Lidholm is not soft per se, but he is not one to drive the net either.

We have seen this year after year. Johnny and Monahan, 2 most important pieces up front just flat out disappear in tough games.

Our promising young players are all small too. Mangi battles so hard, but he is not going to outmuscle a guy like Hedman, McDonaugh, Shattenkirk, Sergachev, Schenn or Bogosian since we are bringing up the "soft" TB team.

The D toughness has been improved a bit, but we still dont have one guy that can strike fear in to opposition. Players are camping in front of Markstrom and Rittich without any meaningful push back.
Some will say that the game has changed and getting rough causes penalties. But that's not true, the whole NHL is doing it mostly without any problems. Yes, some will get too aggressive, but those are exceptions to the rule. You need to protect the front of the net. The Flames are terrible at that.

But really, it comes down to the top line. Come playoff time, we dont have one. This is why a guy like Sam Bennett looks so good, because he is one of very few that is willing to get bruised up to make a play.

In the end you need skill, size and speed. But skill is the easiest to snuff out. Coaches and defenders have spent years in developing traps, neutral zone systems and intimidation to limit skilled players. This is why lesser players become playoff heroes so often. They have more room to play.

And I am not suggesting that you need 12 big and mean forwards. But you need someone that can break thru tight checking on a scoring line. The Flames top line needs a puck retriever and a playmaker. Someone to win battles and be able to carry the puck in so JG isnt the only one doing it. Add a different dimension to them. A Josh Anderson comes to mind.
Second line needs some speed. A North-South player than can skate the puck in, let Tkachuk catch up (his skating..oooff) and shoot. Dube may be that guy, but he needs time. Lids is a good compliment to that line already.

If you can have the 2 lines spend some o-zone time you will wear out the opposition D and make it easier for the 3rd and 4th lines to make plays too. Make it tough on them and tire them out. Right now they are one and out. Or shoot the puck in and lose it. That's an indirect indication that they are not tough enough to win battles down low.

Just think how different this team would look if we somehow managed to add Josh Anderson and Toffoli like Montreal did. Its not just "early season" envy because they are winning. They added 2 skilled and gritty guys that can reshape the entire forward group of a team.

[Geeoff]

I don't see how Treliving gets another coach. How many GMs with no success get 4 coaches?


Maybe we should try inserting some kids like Zary, Phillips and Ruzicka

[Tsawwassen]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It is my belief that there are certain coaches that coach the game with an eye on the analytics. They want a possession type of game at all costs. It sounds good, but not every group can play that type of game. Babcock is the 'king' of this philosophy, but I argue he has always been a fairly mediocre coach who lucked his way onto the top team.


Also, don't bring up the fact that he got picked to coach Team Canada - know who was second in the running to coach? Brent Sutter when he joined the Flames. Yes, he was widely thought of as the 2nd best coach in Canada.


Give me a coach any day like Bob Johnson, Darryl Sutter and Bob Hartley. All three of these coaches have created systems according to the on-ice personnel, and all had exhaustive track records of making in-game decisions. I find it funny how Hartley in particular gets labelled as a terrible coach, when he was the only coach that actually won a playoff series. Won a cup too. He also won in every single damn league he has ever coached in. I get why he was fired - yes, he was way too harsh and difficult with the players personally, and I don't begrudge the Flames for moving on.

What do you think of Terry Crisp?