[News] All-encompassing Bennett trade discussions thread

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You jumped on a stat post.

All you have to do is look up other comments where I say he isn't getting it done, and hasn't produced or done anything with Backlund and therefore doesn't deserve better linemates.

I'm not defending Bennett as in needed more ice time or better linemates. I'm leaning on both extremes ... in this topic today.

- the give him a chance or don't scratch him over others crowd
- and the tiresome replacement level player crowd

Guess I've managed to piss off both sides.

Bottom line ... I write a damn game story every second night, I don't need the suggestion that I only look at spreadsheets. It's a silly argument as stats guys that love hockey don't abandon the sport to look at spreadsheets, nor would they spreadsheet a sport they don't love.

Lazy

I'm not insinuating you don't love the game, you obviously have a huge dedication to it. I just often see (maybe I'm wrong) a very advanced stats first or stats heavy approach to your takes, which sometimes don't jive with what I'm seeing play out in reality. For example, I do think Bennett is pretty replaceable. Even if we agree he's third liner in terms of his place in the league, there are a host of traits and capabilities that various 3rd liners have, and I don't think he has many of the good ones.
Anyways the spreadsheet comment probably could have been left out of it, I apologize for that.

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I'm guessing Bennett was baffled by Leivo getting PP time (as literally any person with two eyes should be) and said so to Ward and now got benched.

Lol,

I wonder if Sam knows he is literally last place in CF% and last place in xGF% this year.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by calumniate

I don't understand why you'd trade him. He's only 18, 19 years old

I've been afraid to ask for a long time, but since he's being traded...

Can someone explain the 18-year-old Sam Bennett meme to me?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Lol,

I wonder if Sam knows he is literally last place in CF% and last place in xGF% this year.

If our coach makes lineup decisions based on Corsi then we are in bigger trouble tahn just worrying about whether Bennet is good or bad

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I'm not insinuating you don't love the game, you obviously have a huge dedication to it. I just often see (maybe I'm wrong) a very advanced stats first or stats heavy approach to your takes, which sometimes don't jive with what I'm seeing play out in reality. For example, I do think Bennett is pretty replaceable. Even if we agree he's third liner in terms of his place in the league, there are a host of traits and capabilities that various 3rd liners have, and I don't think he has many of the good ones.
Anyways the spreadsheet comment probably could have been left out of it, I apologize for that.

Maybe re-evaluate your bias when empirical data refutes what you think you are seeing?

[Pickle Juice]

Originally Posted by Young Guns

If he is just a healthy scratch and they replace him with Simon then that's a head scratcher. Simon in my opinion has been brutal, several others should be sat before Bennett.
If nursing an injury or has played his last game as a Flame would be the only way this makes sense.

This is pure speculation on my part but this looks to me like something happened between Bennett and the coach! I don’t think his play in the last few games warrants him to be sitting this one out. Just my opinion.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

If our coach makes lineup decisions based on Corsi then we are in bigger trouble tahn just worrying about whether Bennet is good or bad

If the coach ignores advanced stats, the Flames are in trouble.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

If our coach makes lineup decisions based on Corsi then we are in bigger trouble tahn just worrying about whether Bennet is good or bad

If he isn't using any data to make the decisions, then we are in bad shape, you mean.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I've been afraid to ask for a long time, but since he's being traded...

Can someone explain the 18-year-old Sam Bennett meme to me?

From the Canucks/Flames playoff series when Sam was 18. Every time he touched the puck, the announcer would mention his age

[Vinny01]

I have been a huge Bennett fan since he was drafted but the time to move on was last offseason when he had a great playoff. I am not surprised he is mediocre again to start the regular season we have seen this many times before.

I am ready to move on and hope the flames are able to get a good return. Let’s see if Treliving can sell a team on the change of scenery, playoff performance, gritty player narratives

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If the coach ignores advanced stats, the Flames are in trouble.

Corsi is not advanced

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Can't wait until every thread on CP after bennett leaves is about how "this team is too soft and needs to bring in players who hit and bring physicality"

Well we won't have to worry about that until the playoffs anyway.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Corsi is not advanced

It is to me. But do you really want to dive into more advanced stats for Bennett?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Pts/60 minutes played is such a horse#### stat though. It is not a fair measure because quality of opposition is not factored into the mix. This is why I don't like advanced stats or the crowd who rely on them for their argument, is they don't truly understand stats and methodology for collection and comparison. Hockey is based on chaos and team play. You can't take something as general as shots or points generated and think they are equitable measures.

Just so I'm clear ...

Points/60 is a horse#### stat because it doesn't take into account quality of opposition but his total points can be walked out with zero context and that's better?

And beyond that ... how does someone so bat#### scared of fancy stats add quality of competition to the conversation in the first place?

Do you see how inconsistent that is?

Points/60 doesn't have to be blurred by random stats it's as simple as it's definition ... how much does player x produce per minute compared to other NHL forwards.

How is that fancy? Why is that horse####? It's the most simple thing you can look at beyond the too simplistic actual points that doesn't have any utilization content at all.

You'd think for a guy that likes quality of competition, that would be a step in the right direction no?

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by fleury

I’m calling it now. Detroit. I hope it’s free if they take on Lucic. Elsewise the flames will never get value for Bennett in a one for one. That’s my thought personally.

If they trade him to Detroit who gets playoff Sam Bennett?

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Corsi is not advanced

It seems to be just advanced enough to go over a lot of peoples heads?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It is to me. But do you really want to dive into more advanced stats for Bennett?

Is there another thread for that

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Maybe re-evaluate your bias when empirical data refutes what you think you are seeing?

There is no empirical data is going to show me Bennett has been a net positive contributor to this team over his time here. You can pull out any advanced stats you want, but in this case I trust what I've seen on the ice over a number of years.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Igottago

There is no empirical data is going to show me Bennett has been a net positive contributor to this team over his time here. You can pull out any advanced stats you want, but in this case I trust what I've seen on the ice over a number of years.

Must have skipped watching the playoffs then huh?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Maybe re-evaluate your bias when empirical data refutes what you think you are seeing?

Hockey stats do not refute anything.