[GT] US election - It's 2020, what could possibly go wrong?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Edit: I should try reading sentences in their entirety.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Jesus man, you really can't see how dogmatic your position is here?

Rube is a socialist Bernie Bro. Hardcore. Unless Sanders is selected to a cabinet post Biden is a moron and in bed with the neocons. So far Biden's picks have been pretty predictable and solid down the line. Some of the particular portfolio assignments have been a bit of a surprise, but the people selected have been solid and are very good people to be in leadership roles.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm not really interested in what these people label themselves as, if they're still supportive of the same neocon policies they've always been. That just means they're going to work internally to drag the Democrats over to where the GOP used to be, which is still bad.

There are already some warning signs of this with some of Biden's cabinet picks, but the media is still largely focused on Trump's shenanigans.

https://play.acast.com/s/intercepted...medicareforall

AOC on Ending the Pelosi Era, Biden’s Corporate Cabinet, and the Battle for Medicare for All
President-elect Joe Biden’s Cabinet is being constructed in significant part from corporate Democrats and Obama-era national security hawks with a small side order of more progressive figures. This week on Intercepted: As Nancy Pelosi runs unopposed in her party for another term as speaker of the House, Congress has failed for many months to deliver meaningful aid to millions of Americans suffering through the Covid-19 pandemic. But lawmakers moved swiftly to approve the National Defense Authorization Act, an overwhelmingly bipartisan military and war spending bill. New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was one of just 37 Democrats to vote against the NDAA, and she is increasingly vocal in her criticism of her party’s leadership. In a wide-ranging interview with Intercepted, Ocasio-Cortez discusses the fight for Medicare for All, the battle for the future of the Democratic Party, red-baiting and the 2020 election, Biden’s emerging Cabinet, disaster profiteering in Puerto Rico, the weaponizing of the Espionage Act, and more. Then, The American Prospect’s Executive Editor David Dayen breaks down the negotiations over another round of Covid-19-related “stimulus” legislation, explains the failures of the Democrats and the viciousness of the Republicans on Capitol Hill, and discusses the battle over Biden Cabinet appointments.

[blender]

If rubecube had used the word neoliberal instead of neoconservative would anyones view change?

I think he has a fair point.

And New Era, I'm surprised to see you using the pejorative "socialist" label so freely.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by blender

If rubecube had used the word neoliberal instead of neoconservative would anyones view change?

I think he has a fair point.

And New Era, I'm surprised to see you using the pejorative "socialist" label so freely.

Poisoned by living in America and suffering their discourse on the regular.

I don't think it's even in question that Biden's cabinet is same-old same-old, and depressingly predictable as an indicator that the DNC has literally learned sweet #### all from the election that just happened a month ago.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Poisoned by living in America and suffering their discourse on the regular.

I don't think it's even in question that Biden's cabinet is same-old same-old, and depressingly predictable as an indicator that the DNC has literally learned sweet #### all from the election that just happened a month ago.

Your idea of the lesson they should have learned may be detached from reality.

Biden had a decisive victory on a moderate platform.

The consensus among moderate house Democrats that saw what was going on in their districts, is that messages like "defund the police", and being labelled as socialists cost a lot of close seats.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/06/polit...ion/index.html

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Your idea of the lesson they should have learned may be detached from reality.

Biden had a decisive victory on a moderate platform.

The consensus among moderate house Democrats that saw what was going on in their districts, is that messages like "defund the police", and being labelled as socialists cost a lot of close seats.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/06/polit...ion/index.html

I'm not talking about Biden's win, I'm talking about their lost House seats. How do you come off 4 years of Trump and lose house seats??

Literally a dozen seats lost, all of them "moderates".

Crazy how the more left leaning members of the house all kept their seats...

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'm not talking about Biden's win, I'm talking about their lost House seats. How do you come off 4 years of Trump and lose house seats??

Literally a dozen seats lost, all of them "moderates".

Crazy how the more left leaning members of the house all kept their seats...

I was talking about house seats in my post.

Left leaning candidates run in liberal districts.

Moderates run in competitive districts, and many lost by being associated with far left slogans.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by blender

If rubecube had used the word neoliberal instead of neoconservative would anyones view change?

I think he has a fair point.

And New Era, I'm surprised to see you using the pejorative "socialist" label so freely.

This is the "American" politics thread. Anything left of Ted Cruz is a "socialist." Get with the program.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I was talking about house seats in my post.

Left leaning candidates run in liberal districts.

Moderates run in competitive districts, and many lost by being associated with far left slogans.

I guess this is certainly a more convenient explanation than the failures of the party leadership.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'm not talking about Biden's win, I'm talking about their lost House seats. How do you come off 4 years of Trump and lose house seats??

Literally a dozen seats lost, all of them "moderates".

Crazy how the more left leaning members of the house all kept their seats...

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I was talking about house seats in my post.

Left leaning candidates run in liberal districts.

Moderates run in competitive districts, and many lost by being associated with far left slogans.

Right on the money nfotiu. Canadians don't understand the diversity in the states and the swings in attitudes that can take place literally across a street that divides districts. To out this into perspective, the difference between AOC, the Queen of American Socialism, and Peter King, one of the Court Jesters from the right, is five miles in distance. FIVE MILES. The United States is a real melting pot and that shows in maps that show voting behaviors. This is a purple country and you have to be representative of that.

Biden's job is to halt the rightward march in attitudes and rebuild the institutions that Trump has all but destroyed. The only way to do that effectively is to bring in experienced people and leverage the expertise of those who know government. His picks have been solid and should help reestablish some trust in our institutions and provide opportunity to slowly make the shift back toward the center.

[comrade]

Originally Posted by New Era

Right on the money nfotiu. Canadians don't understand the diversity in the states and the swings in attitudes that can take place literally across a street that divides districts. To out this into perspective, the difference between AOC, the Queen of American Socialism, and Peter King, one of the Court Jesters from the right, is five miles in distance. FIVE MILES. The United States is a real melting pot and that shows in maps that show voting behaviors. This is a purple country and you have to be representative of that.

Biden's job is to halt the rightward march in attitudes and rebuild the institutions that Trump has all but destroyed. The only way to do that effectively is to bring in experienced people and leverage the expertise of those who know government. His picks have been solid and should help reestablish some trust in our institutions and provide opportunity to slowly make the shift back toward the center.

Like Susan Rice for the domestic policy council? Like Pete Buttigieg for any post?

Or perhaps you like bringing back Vilsack, who spent his first tour in the department of Ag destroying farmers, and spent his break lobbying for the dairy industry.

If he's trying to build trust with regular Americans, these picks are abysmal. What good is expertise in "know[ing] government" if they spend their time enriching large corporations and building their resumes for plumb lobbying jobs?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by New Era

This is the "American" politics thread. Anything left of Ted Cruz is a "socialist." Get with the program.

One important point to keep in mind here is I do not read Biden’s victory as being anything like an endorsement of the progressive policies of the left wing of his party. It’s clear he was supported by a ton of ticket splitters who voted Biden but voted GOP down the ticket, which suggests older “neocon” (if that’s what you want to call them) played an outsized role in his victory. It was a rejection of Trump and Trumpism, not of conservative ideology or of traditionally Republican ideas.

Not saying Biden should govern like George W. Bush, but I do think he is interpreting his mandate from the people correctly.

[afc wimbledon]

Defund the police wasnt a great slogan and it gave the GOP a stick to beat the Dem's with, that said it was the riots that really ruined the Dem's chances and the combination of the two 'messages' which is why Trump did everything he could to instigate more riots, the whole Seattle anarchists zone and the idiocy in Portland scares the bolloxs off of middle america and achieved nothing but keeping the right in power.

It was 1968 all over again, that led to Nixon

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by comrade

Like Susan Rice for the domestic policy council? Like Pete Buttigieg for any post?

Or perhaps you like bringing back Vilsack, who spent his first tour in the department of Ag destroying farmers, and spent his break lobbying for the dairy industry.

If he's trying to build trust with regular Americans, these picks are abysmal. What good is expertise in "know[ing] government" if they spend their time enriching large corporations and building their resumes for plumb lobbying jobs?

That is historically what 'regular Americans' overwhelmingly vote for though, I mean the 50% of the US that is GOP plus the 25 or 30% that is centerist Dem' is regular America, the 20 or 25% of Progressive Democrats is just that, maybe 1 out of 4 or 5 doesnt support a corporate agenda at the polls

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Not saying Biden should govern like George W. Bush, but I do think he is interpreting his mandate from the people correctly.

I always wished that there was a better mechanism for mandates to be prescribed by the electorate

Harper on election would use the term right away, step up say “you have given us a mandate to ____”, where ____ may be an unpopular item, but was part of the overall platform.

Well, in that case, he was the least crappy of the candidates at the time, and it was annoying to hear him say that when you held your nose and voted for him despite such an issue

I agree, Biden has the challenge of reading the minds of very different groups and interpreting just what he can interpret as a mandate that will be ultimately constructive for his party and country

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I was talking about house seats in my post.

Left leaning candidates run in liberal districts.

Moderates run in competitive districts, and many lost by being associated with far left slogans.

Yeah, this is just straight up wrong. Even in lean-Republican or strong-Republican districts, every Democratic candidate that supported M4A won their seats.

Again, the idea that progressive policies aren't popular just isn't supported by data (e.g. polls, studies, election results, etc.). It's a nice talking point for centrists but there's a reason they can't offer anything except rhetoric and/or useless talking points (e.g. "Biden won the most votes of any candidate!").

[comrade]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

That is historically what 'regular Americans' overwhelmingly vote for though, I mean the 50% of the US that is GOP plus the 25 or 30% that is centerist Dem' is regular America, the 20 or 25% of Progressive Democrats is just that, maybe 1 out of 4 or 5 doesnt support a corporate agenda at the polls

There's been no real economic choice at the polls in decades, especially at the top of the ticket.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Jesus man, you really can't see how dogmatic your position is here?

I'm just far more jaded and less naive than you are I think. These people don't deserve the benefit of the doubt until they've proven they've actually changed their stripes.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

One important point to keep in mind here is I do not read Biden’s victory as being anything like an endorsement of the progressive policies of the left wing of his party. It’s clear he was supported by a ton of ticket splitters who voted Biden but voted GOP down the ticket, which suggests older “neocon” (if that’s what you want to call them) played an outsized role in his victory. It was a rejection of Trump and Trumpism, not of conservative ideology or of traditionally Republican ideas.

Not saying Biden should govern like George W. Bush, but I do think he is interpreting his mandate from the people correctly.

Nope.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...oting-in-2020/