Random question: Why did the Flames trade Reichel in 1997?

[mac_82]

I can't for the life of me find the link for the exact quote...

But I believe it was Eric Duhatschek on the 31 Thoughts podcast this year who had a Reichel story during his time with the Flames and had some "choice" words for Flames fans after the '98 shoot out goal.

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by timun

Coates was in a no-win situation. It wasn't about "trying to address character issues"—although it factored into several of the trades you've mentioned (Reichel, Nylander, Kidd)—but the overarching problem was money. The Flames "sent out a lot of skilled pieces with very little to show for it" because they couldn't afford to keep those players. (Even though as compared to today the dollar values are paltry.)

Look back at Coates's "body of work" under the lens of "they don't have the money", and things look quite different.

Nieuwendyk for Iginla & Millen: Nieuwendyk was holding out. Flames went to arbitration in the summer of '95, offering C$1.4M/yr retroactive to the beginning of the lockout-shortened season before. He was making US$900,000 prior. Nieuwendyk asked the arbitrator for US$2.1M/yr. The arbitration award was US$1.7M for '94-'95 and US$1.85M for '95-'96. Nieuwendyk wanted a longer term deal, reported to training camp but refused to participate in exhibition games. After the regular season started he refused to report until he got a minimum three-year deal from the Flames for around $2M/yr. Flames reportedly offered him US$1.8M/yr x 3 yrs; he refused. They had to find a team that would pay him, and would also give them the best return. Dealt him to Dallas because they were willing to pay him (US$11.1M/5 years), and got Millen—to bring back at least some centre depth—and Iginla, the 11th overall pick six months earlier.

Housley & Keczmer for Albelin, Hulse & Lemieux: Housley was a pending unrestricted free agent looking for a big pay raise. Infamously detested playing in Canada and being paid in Canadian dollars. Ended up getting a three-year deal from the Caps that paid him >$2.5M per year; would have made him the highest paid Flame, couldn't afford that. Had they not traded him to Jersey they would have got nothing when he walked in the summer.

Reichel for McInnis & Garner: already wrote at length about Reichel holding out the entire '95-'96 season, and at the time of the trade had 16 goals and 27 assists for 43 points. McInnis had 20 goals and 22 assists (43 points). Does it really seem that bad a deal for a cash-strapped team when Reichel was making $2M a year and McInnis about $550,000? Sure Reichel was more talented but he wasn't going to produce for the Flames, they needed to part ways and he already had a reputation around the league for being disinterested and lazy. Really went to show how much Reichel didn't want to be here when he went on a 19-points-in-12-games tear at the end of the season with the Islanders.

Kidd & Roberts for Cassels & Giguere: sulky goalie who was an absolute disaster and a guy who medical staff recommended never play again, for the Whalers' top centre and goalie prospect. Roberts went on to have a long and fruitful 'second career', but at the time this was a shrewd move. Roberts also specifically asked for a trade to an Eastern Conference team; Flames did him a solid.

Nylander for Nazarov: Nylander demanded a trade in '96, sat out the entire '96-'97 season as an RFA, came back in '97 with a new $700,000/1 yr contract, got hurt late in the '97-'98 season, demanded a trade in the '98 offseason as an RFA again, signed a $775,000/1 yr contract, came back from injury in December, got traded in January for something lest he walk at the end of the season (again). EDIT: And keep in mind the Lightning only got 35 games out of Nylander before they tired of him too and jettisoned him to Chicago for bottom-pairing defenceman Bryan Muir and goon Reid Simpson.

Fleury & Dingman for Belak, Corbet, 2nd Rounder & Regehr: Fleury was leaving Calgary no matter what, so between a choice of getting something or nothing Coates chose 'something'. Not sure what more you'd expect for a pending UFA who was looking for a massive pay raise, the Avalanche lost him for nothing when he signed a 3-year, $21M contract with the Rangers. Ultimately the Avalanche traded a goon (Belak), a third-liner (Corbet), Regehr and a pick for a goon (Dingman) and 33 games of Theo Fleury.

Excellent summary and pretty much exactly how I remember each of these scenarios.

If you didn’t live through it, you might not realize how dire those mid-late ‘90s years were financially for the team. IMO, Coates did an amazing job with the constraints he had.

Also worth mentioning what might have been had he not been let go—IIRC he wanted to re-up St. Louis, but the incoming management weren’t so keen...Coates seemed to have a decent eye for young talent at that time.

[timun]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Brad Moran is my neighbour!

And he was a far better player than Pavel Brendl!

[timun]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

I do think Vernon was playing hurt in this series as well (back problems?)

Ankle, I think. But yeah, Jeff Reese was awful too. Basically played himself out of a job, but the writing was on the wall for him anyway with Trevor Kidd, Andrei Trefilov and Jason Muzzatti nipping at his heels for the backup job.

[timun]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Why did Makarov quit on the team?!?!?

He had signed an offer sheet with the Sharks the summer before (which the Flames matched); he didn't really want to be in Calgary anymore anyway. Infamously didn't get along with any of the coaching staff (was infamously quoted telling Terry Crisp, "Tikhonov bad guy, good coach; you good guy, bad coach"), and it finally came to a head with Dave King in '93 (coach #3 in four seasons). Previous coaches Crisp and Doug Risebrough were accused of not really "understanding the Russian game" but the same accusations could not be levied against Dave King. King coached the national team for years, knew "the Russian game" very well, and was actually quite vocal about how badly Flames management had whiffed on picking up any of the elite young talent from the former Soviet Union in the early '90s.

Makarov, by the end of his time in Calgary, was just like Reichel: disinterested and lazy. A liability to the team when he didn't have the puck. Didn't even bother trying to play defence anymore, didn't listen to the coaching staff, left his linemates out to dry. He was "the Russian Gretzky": he wanted to play the game his way, and it was his way or the highway. The Sharks only got a couple useful seasons out of him before they encouraged him to retire. He couldn't hack it anymore, and he didn't listen to anything Kevin Constantine told him anyway. And when he signed with Dallas in a comeback attempt in '96 he was such an ass to Ken Hitchcock they let him go after only a handful of games.

[Sandman]

For all the acting out Reichel did, he sure was emotional in his interview leaving town. He was in tears IIRC. Didn't want to leave Calgary.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Remember Robert Dome?

He looked like an All-Star player for the first 10 minutes of a game, but had such terrible conditioning that you couldn't play him more than a few minutes a game after that. He only got in one game with the NHL Flames, so I am going by what others have said of course.

If I remember correctly, he scored a handful of goals in preseason which earned him a one game look where he was invisible. Flames fans were so desperate for anything resembling skill at that time that we didn't care that he was flawed in pretty much every other aspect. Surprisingly he was a point-per-game in the AHL that year.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by cannon7

If I remember correctly, he scored a handful of goals in preseason which earned him a one game look where he was invisible. Flames fans were so desperate for anything resembling skill at that time that we didn't care that he was flawed in pretty much every other aspect. Surprisingly he was a point-per-game in the AHL that year.

And Robert Lang, who we cut in camp then went on to score 20+ goals (or pace) 10 seasons in a row plus one season with 30 goals, 80 points.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Those Coates/Button years were pretty dark times. The Flames was basically a glorified IHL squad. The nadir being not enough prospects to ice a farm team with relocation being a legitimate threat.

[Tabaracci_31]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Those Coates/Button years were pretty dark times. The Flames was basically a glorified IHL squad. The nadir being not enough prospects to ice a farm team with relocation being a legitimate threat.

That’s the team I grew up with. I remember being legitimately shocked when a lot of my classmates who never seemed to care about the Flames suddenly got jerseys and shirts in 2004. At the time, I was pissed about it in a weird, hipster way. “I went to their “”shows”” before they were big!” In hindsight, I don’t blame everyone. Funny how things change through the years. It was almost inconceivable to cheer for a team that made the playoffs consistently, who had a lot of fans and made hockey seem cool.

[MrMike]

Especially at that age, where 7 years felt like 20 years. My first moment I can really remember the Flames was the 95-96 season. It really sucked going from ages 9-17 having a team with just about no hope.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Tabaracci_31

That’s the team I grew up with. I remember being legitimately shocked when a lot of my classmates who never seemed to care about the Flames suddenly got jerseys and shirts in 2004. At the time, I was pissed about it in a weird, hipster way. “I went to their “”shows”” before they were big!” In hindsight, I don’t blame everyone. Funny how things change through the years. It was almost inconceivable to cheer for a team that made the playoffs consistently, who had a lot of fans and made hockey seem cool.

Yeah.

As a kid growing up at that time it was tough to be a Flames fan for sure - just nothing to get really excited about.

I was actually a Ducks fan when I was younger, Kariya and Selanne were my favourite players and had an attachment to the team due to the Disney movies.

But I feel like most kids at my school at that time were Red Wings or Avalanche fans.

For me it actually changed for me prior to the 2004 season though, for me it changed in the 2001-2002 season.

The strong start to the season, Iggy being a big part of the Olympic team, and Iggy scoring 50 and being the best player in the league are what got me to change my affiliation from the Ducks to the Flames (helps that Selanne was traded by the Ducks at the end of the 01 season too and that pissed me off).

When Iggy was on the cover of NHL 2003 that felt like the first time the Flames were my primary team in a video game (Actually that's a lie, I'd use the Flames in NHL 94 too, but the team was still good then and Ducks were horrible). Guess I would have been 14 at the time (Fall of 2002).

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Tabaracci_31

That’s the team I grew up with. I remember being legitimately shocked when a lot of my classmates who never seemed to care about the Flames suddenly got jerseys and shirts in 2004. At the time, I was pissed about it in a weird, hipster way. “I went to their “”shows”” before they were big!” In hindsight, I don’t blame everyone. Funny how things change through the years. It was almost inconceivable to cheer for a team that made the playoffs consistently, who had a lot of fans and made hockey seem cool.

Felt the same in 86, Flames were a playoff team but in Alberta many were either disinterested in the Flames or cheered on the winner up north. Once Flames got to the cup suddenly all my classmates that never talked Flames or hockey were all screaming Go Flames Go I was rolling my eyes but it was nice to see Oiler fans angry and the Flames get all the attention.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Especially at that age, where 7 years felt like 20 years. My first moment I can really remember the Flames was the 95-96 season. It really sucked going from ages 9-17 having a team with just about no hope.

Agreed. 2004 to 2020 is a longer time span than 1989 to 2004. The Cup run does seem a long time ago but when 2004 happened it felt like a lifetime (being young, it actually was) since 1989

[Tabaracci_31]

Originally Posted by calgaryred

Felt the same in 86, Flames were a playoff team but in Alberta many were either disinterested in the Flames or cheered on the winner up north. Once Flames got to the cup suddenly all my classmates that never talked Flames or hockey were all screaming Go Flames Go I was rolling my eyes but it was nice to see Oiler fans angry and the Flames get all the attention.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

That’s wild! I just assumed that in the 80’s, the Flames were immensely popular all through the decade. They went to the semi-finals the year they got here and were solid each year (based on my historical research). The more you know...

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Agreed. 2004 to 2020 is a longer time span than 1989 to 2004. The Cup run does seem a long time ago but when 2004 happened it felt like a lifetime (being young, it actually was) since 1989

That 2002-03 team had so much promise. They had just signed Gelinas, they had made huge deal with Colorado, and Iginla was coming off a 52 goal, 96 point season.

The 2001-02 season was fun too for the first 18 or so games.

[MrMike]

Yup but they ended the same as every year. Fighting for a playoff spot and finishing just on the outside looking in. When they secured a spot in 03/04 I almost couldn’t believe it until the puck dropped.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

The 2001-02 season was fun too for the first 18 or so games.

Username checks out.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Tabaracci_31

That’s the team I grew up with. I remember being legitimately shocked when a lot of my classmates who never seemed to care about the Flames suddenly got jerseys and shirts in 2004. At the time, I was pissed about it in a weird, hipster way. “I went to their “”shows”” before they were big!” In hindsight, I don’t blame everyone. Funny how things change through the years. It was almost inconceivable to cheer for a team that made the playoffs consistently, who had a lot of fans and made hockey seem cool.

My experience was pretty much the same as yours: I knew no one else who watched Flames hockey. As I wrote in "[News] Adidas 4th Jersey "reverse retro" Thread (ol’ Blasty has returned!)":

Originally Posted by timun

Prior to the bandwagoneers of the spring of 2004 I didn't know anyone else who was a Flames fan. The only ones I knew were the 12,000 or so who actually showed up at the Saddledome.

The Flames sucked—year-in, year-out—for a long time. It went on so long that yeah, it really had become inconceivable that I would cheer for a team that actually made the playoffs and had lots of other fans. It was surreal when they made the playoffs in '04; I almost didn't believe it. And they didn't even squeak into 8th place, as they tantalizingly came close to many years between '96 and '04, they were 6th! Safely "in"!

Most of my friends in the late '90s and early '00s were Oilers fans, because they were the only people I could talk hockey with. They found the Flames' ineptitude sad more than anything. In much the same way I find the Oilers' ineptitude since 2006 sad, and the "Edmonton is no good!" joking that goes on on this forum is puerile and dumb to me.

I also, in retrospect, don't blame the '04 bandwagoneers for not giving a damn for the almost-decade prior. I've come to think of them as "the smart ones": why torture yourself cheering for a bunch of losers who play a boring game? It's a sports entertainment business. The biggest con pro sports ever successfully executed was brainwashing fans into believing that teams are owed any loyalty whatsoever, that you're a "bad fan" if you don't stick out watching a crap product year after year. They wrap their brand with your hometown's name—it's not just the Flames hockey club, it's the CALGARY Flames—and tell you they're out there playing for YOU, to represent YOUR city. It's a crock of ****, it's just a marketing scheme; a gimmick used to con you into spending your discretionary income on their product rather than a dinner and a movie or whatever. I still enjoy hockey but I can't be bothered to watch most games. I go to a handful a year, might watch a few at a pub with friends, but I don't torture myself watching Tuesday night games against the Florida Panthers or whatever anymore.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Continuing on....

Why did the Flames move one of my favorite players of the 90s: German Titov

He had great chemistry with Fleury and had three 20 goal seasons in Calgary during his time here.

I am sure they could have gotten Ken Wregget some other way.