American Politics Thread: The Hunt for Blue November

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Why? It's pretty much a foregone conclusion Trump is going to lose, we're all just waiting to see how he tries to steal it.

The funny thing is, if he loses as bad as the polls suggest, it will probably fuel conspiracy theories even more. He is entering Putin level territory. Which seems about right to me, but something you rarely ever see in a truly democratic election.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Whats the best thing for the USA? For them to go hard for charges for stuff and going after his family? Or cutting a deal for him to go quietly and any investigations are dropped? I think the latter is better for the Country but I don't know it happens.

I doubt anything happens to the orange stain, I expect him to lose the election, but it will be closer than expected. Then I expect he will cheat to get another 4 years in power, and then it gets really dark.

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[MoneyGuy]

The latter is better for the country but seeing him hauled out of the White House in chains and many charges against Trump and his co-conspirators and prison sentences resulting would be more satisfying, but more dangerous.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Assuming Trump actually does vacate the White House, he'll be registered for the 2024 election immediately and be campaigning again within a week.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Maybe. But I think that if there is any remotely smart people in the republican party you can realize that rolling out about as moderate as a candidate as you can for 2024 is probably a shoe in for victory.

So I expect a worse Trump in 2024.

Agreed both about what they should do, and what they'll likely do.

But I also disagree that such an approach would be a shoe-in. I think the Republicans are probably screwed for 2024, either way, if Trump loses this year.

They're going to have an incredibly divisive primary cycle, with some traditional Republicans, some high profile Trump allies, and some Trump-style-outsiders all competing. If a traditional conservative (let's say Romney) wins, then some of the Trump allies are going to cry foul, and potentially at least one of them will mount an independent campaign. Not because they think they'll win, but because they're in it for personal brand-building, and Trump showed the template for branding through campaigning... he just made the mistake of actually winning. Hell, Trump (if he's still around) may even endorse such a candidate, because that lets him rail against both the Republicans and the Democrats, and the independent will just suck up to Trump in a way that the Republican nominee never could. And such an independent campaign probably peels off 10-20% of Trump supporters away from the Republicans.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Azure

Who is shrugging their shoulders?

More than you think. I have direct evidence of this from a colleague I work with who lives in the US.

I have asked him multiple times how people in his country can ignore Trump and his ridiculous antics. His answer is always, "Its just Trump being Trump, I am still voting for him" It blows me away.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Twitter's down worldwide, apparently.

Not long after a Trump tweet went out threatening the network.

EDIT: Looks like it's back now.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, I did. From his cashew reference, to the lifeboat reference, to his #### Joe Biden, but #### Donald Trump more rant. Mildly entertaining, but nothing informative or insightful.

But the video wasn't for you.

It's for disillusioned leftists that might stay home. Liberals like yourself don't need convincing.

You guys respond positively to Lincoln Project ads.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

But the video wasn't for you.

It's for disillusioned leftists that might stay home. Liberals like yourself don't need convincing.

Really he came off like a sour Bernie supporter

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[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by calgaryred

Really he came off like a sour Bernie supporter

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A sour Bernie supporter that is trying to rally a counter vote to Trump. This should be seen as a positive thing.

Entertaining that you guys will fall all over to fellate Bush-era conservatives that orchestrated a war to send thousands of civilians and Americans to their deaths, but tut-tut a Bernie supporter begrudgingly pushing a vote for Biden.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

A sour Bernie supporter that is trying to rally a counter vote to Trump. This should be seen as a positive thing.

Entertaining that you guys will fall all over to fellate Bush-era conservatives that orchestrated a war to send thousands of civilians and Americans to their deaths, but tut-tut a Bernie supporter begrudgingly pushing a vote for Biden.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I don't think Neo-cons have redeemed themselves by opposing Trump.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

A sour Bernie supporter that is trying to rally a counter vote to Trump. This should be seen as a positive thing.

Entertaining that you guys will fall all over to fellate Bush-era conservatives that orchestrated a war to send thousands of civilians and Americans to their deaths, but tut-tut a Bernie supporter begrudgingly pushing a vote for Biden.

It's just a lack of empathy of really. This is the same crew who believes the only possible reason someone could vote for Trump is because they're racist. Instead of attempting to understand why the left has valid concerns and less enthusiasm for Biden, it's much easier to to just shame and berate them.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's just a lack of empathy of really. This is the same crew who believes the only possible reason someone could vote for Trump is because they're racist. Instead of attempting to understand why the left has valid concerns and less enthusiasm for Biden, it's much easier to to just shame and berate them.

You're seriously going to complain about stereotyping while doing the exact same thing? I think there is far more nuance going on in this thread than you give credit for.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

You're seriously going to complain about stereotyping while doing the exact same thing? I think there is far more nuance going on in this thread than you give credit for.

Really? Saying "sounds like a sour Bernie supporter" is nuance?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Twitter's down worldwide, apparently.

Not long after a Trump tweet went out threatening the network.

Russians don’t want live tweeting of the Georgia state / Arkansas state game , clearly.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by calgaryred

Really he came off like a sour Bernie supporter

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Deliberately.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's just a lack of empathy of really. This is the same crew who believes the only possible reason someone could vote for Trump is because they're racist. Instead of attempting to understand why the left has valid concerns and less enthusiasm for Biden, it's much easier to to just shame and berate them.

I watched that video from the Hill the other day where that lady yelled at me for 10 minutes and explained why I'm wrong (I frequently call Trump supporters racist pieces of ####).

So you're right in that sense but I think you're wrong that it is all about Biden. Anyone with two brain cells can tell he's a better candidate than Trump. So was Hilary.

I think it is even far more complicated than just the other candidate not "exciting the base" or whatever people are calling it. It's about a lack of education, media sensationalism and yes crappy campaigns. I also believe that for a significant portion of Trump voters the top 3 issues are abortion, guns and racism/bigotry against blacks, gays and immigrants. The breaking point where personal financial well being comes into play is way too far down the list for a lot of these people.

That's why I say anyone who votes for Trump is a racist piece of ####. Because it takes them to practically lose their farm, or to actually lose it, before they'll start putting issues like the ACA, trade, taxes and the economic stability of the lower and middle classes ahead of issues like abortion and gun rights. But they’re more than happy to support racist candidates that perpetuate their own ingrained racist ideology so that they always have a boogie man to blame when their candidate doesn’t deliver on their obviously empty promises.

Is it their fault they're uneducated and have been convinced that mexican boogie men have stolen their jobs? Probably not. It sucks that they've been suckered by the very people who actively make their lives worse. These poor bastards are the people who would benefit most from Democrat policies. Even ones from crappy candidates like Hilary. But they can't see past their conditioned hate of minorities, their barbaric religious ideologies and their obsession with archaic gun rights.

But I still hate them for it. Even if they don't know any better. That's wrong and I know it's wrong. But at least I can recognize that.


I'm always reminded of that scene in the Alexandra Pelosi doc "Right America, Feeling Wronged" where she explains to that poor McCain supporter that the Dems aren't taking his money and giving it to immigrants, as he claims, instead they want to take money from the richest 1% to help make his life better. he freezes for a second like a robot that's been given a command that contradicts itself and creates a paradox. You can see his brain is struggling to come to terms with this revelation and the brainwashing he's had his whole life. Finally he snaps out of it and says that he doesn't want any help from anyone. it's so ####ed up. Like his republican programming finally overcame the logic and adapted to create a new reality to overcome the info she just gave him.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

A sour Bernie supporter that is trying to rally a counter vote to Trump. This should be seen as a positive thing.

The whole outrage act is old. He makes some good points, but they are lost in his over the top outrage. Seems like a smart guy, but this schtick isn't converting anyone. If this is what it takes to get through to Bernie Bros, I can see why they are the way they are.

Entertaining that you guys will fall all over to fellate Bush-era conservatives that orchestrated a war to send thousands of civilians and Americans to their deaths, but tut-tut a Bernie supporter begrudgingly pushing a vote for Biden.

Hmmmm, this is an interesting comment. I think it boils down to framing. Yeah, the Lincoln Project are a bunch of ######bags who are eating their own, but their messaging is just absolutely fantastic. That is the only thing that impresses me about them. Their craft is so good and their shorts are so compelling that you have to give them credit for their work. Do I buy what they are selling? Hell no. But if they help defeat Trump I'll let them do their thing. They are swaying lots of people with their messages, so that is a good thing.

Bernie Bros are just a little too crazy for my liking. I don't know what it is. Whether it's the intentional ignorance of the system, of their pie in the sky optimism/expectation for a 180 turn in how Americans perceives the country and themselves, it is just too much. This is a country that runs in the other direction from the hint of socialism, unaware they fully embrace it in so many ways. Maybe its just the fact that this group can't get their heads around changing their messaging to show just how socialist the US is? If they could get together with the Lincoln Project guys and get them to produce some spots showing just how socialist the United States is, maybe they could gain some traction. Until they develop a better messaging campaign they are considered the fringe. That is what needs to change, because you can't win anything being on the fringe side of the left.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Not remotely what I'm saying. They have 4 years to get the U.S. trending back in the right direction. That means better paying jobs, housing, health care, and infrastructure. Those obviously take more than 4 years to accomplish on a large scale, but there have to at least be incremental improvements that demonstrate the Democrats at least understand the issues and how to fix them.

That happened under Obama. Your contention to Obama-era policies is funny, because he did exactly what you wanted with an entirely uncooperative congress for much of his tenure.

The problem is always that America never recognizes the good the Democrats do because it IS incremental. Obamacare was always meant to be a stopgap, never a permanent solution. It was also a concession to a Republican party that decided not to play nice and do something in the best interest of the entire country: ensuring that everyone can afford health care.

No, it boils down to one party actually wants to govern and the other wants to run up the debt and blame all the country's problems on the "crazy liberals". Don't believe me? Look at any campaign run by a Republican in the last 4 election cycles.

What I've seen is defection from the Republican party because of the most extreme version of that model. I hope that continues until the party is dead in the water, or they replace it with a moderate conservative party that is actually interested in governing an entire country of diverse people again.

[ResAlien]

I see why they try to keep Biden from speaking too much. This town hall hurts to watch. Trump says crazy crap but Biden really does sound all slurry and kind of lost old man rambling.

Absolutely not saying he’s not all there but damn he sounds a lot like an old man trying to talk. Suppose he is but yeesh this is rough. How is grandpa Simpson the best that the Dems had to offer? Christ.