2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Ryan plays a much more valuable position, averages double the points in Watson's best season, and only has this one upcoming season left.

I actually don't want to move him unless we have to, but I think there are potential takers out there without sweetner. Florida has some space and needs centres. Minnesota. Even Ottawa still.

So, you bring up Watson as a comparable, then your argument when I bring up salary is to point out how the two don't really compare?

I agree Ryan is the better player, but at 3 times the salary he better be.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes, that is Francis's schtick as far back as I can remember. Always trying to drive the best talent out of town. I have a Sun cutout somewhere after I had wrote him in the 90's blasting him for his constant attacks on Fleury and he printed it. He is toxic to the organization and I have no idea why they talk to him let alone employ the guy. If Gaudreau goes he will be beating that Tkachuk wants out drum for all he is worth. If he goes it will be another star for the Flames. It is what he does.

The Eric Francis playbook. Predict bad things. If they come true, he can take credit for calling it in advance. If they don’t come true... He’s glad to be proven wrong. It’s a no lose game for him.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

The Eric Francis playbook. Predict bad things. If they come true, he can take credit for calling it in advance. If they don’t come true... He’s glad to be proven wrong. It’s a no lose game for him.

There's definitely a few posters around here who follow that strategy as well.

I'm pretty sure they would watch a Flames Stanley Cup parade complaining the whole time that the only reason they won was because the players wanted to increase their value in free agency.

[AC]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1316785429585301507

Hoffman? They freed up a lot of money without any significant signing.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

So, you bring up Watson as a comparable, then your argument when I bring up salary is to point out how the two don't really compare?

I agree Ryan is the better player, but at 3 times the salary he better be.

Nah, my point was just that contracts are not completely immovable during the constrained cap period we are currently in. Austin watson is not a good player... So if he can be moved easily then I believe Ryan could also find another home without us having to pay for it.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Remember, by signing with Calgary, he ate into one year of his ELC contract already, which brought him one year closer to his second contract. If he took the UFA route out of college, his ELC would have been 3 years. It arguably made him an extra $5M or so. It's what a number of US college players do.

UFA for college players gives the player the right to choose their destination, but it doesn't mean more money. Signing with the team that drafted you early does bring more money.

I am going from the dark recesses of my memory, but I thought him signing the year early while brought him closer to free agency by burning a year, also kept him RFA a year longer.
I.e. By burning the year, he stayed RFA, but by not burning it, he would have been UFA a year sooner.

Edit: My memory was close. It kept him away from being eligible for Arbitration and/or an offer sheet, so might have saved the Flames money...?

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/when-...ohnny-gaudreau

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by AC

https://twitter.com/user/status/1316785429585301507

Hoffman? They freed up a lot of money without any significant signing.

It would fit in nicely with their other recent moves.

...in that it would be an awful signing. Hoffman is a PP specialist, and a generally poor 5v5 player.

[scobel]

Would anyone entertain a Tyler Johnson and 2nd + 3rd round pick for Derek Ryan? Then move Rittich and a 3rd to a team for a 6th? And add Ceci. Proposed this in cap friendly earlier.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by scobel

Would anyone entertain a Tyler Johnson and 2nd + 3rd round pick for Derek Ryan? Then move Rittich and a 3rd to a team for a 6th? And add Ceci. Proposed this in cap friendly earlier.

The first, sure. The second - I’d move Rittich but he needs no sweetener and the return is terrible. As for Ceci - meh.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by scobel

Would anyone entertain a Tyler Johnson and 2nd + 3rd round pick for Derek Ryan? Then move Rittich and a 3rd to a team for a 6th? And add Ceci. Proposed this in cap friendly earlier.

I don’t think Johnson’s cap-hit is worth taking on for the 2nd and a 3rd, especially with 4 more years on that deal. It adds complication going forward, and there are some contracts to be done going forward (Mang this year. Dube, Bennett, Valimaki next year).

So yeah, big nope to Tyler Johnson from my perspective.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by scobel

Would anyone entertain a Tyler Johnson and 2nd + 3rd round pick for Derek Ryan? Then move Rittich and a 3rd to a team for a 6th? And add Ceci. Proposed this in cap friendly earlier.

Tyler Johnson. It is the back half of the contract that is an albatross. He is not going to move unless Tampa Bay takes some cap, or the add on is significant.

Cody Ceci - Is not good at hockey. Yelesin is a better option.

Rittich - Tre said that he is going forward with Rittich/Markstrom as it is a condensed schedule.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Well, I hate to be THAT guy that derails a thread, but...


What teams do you think are going to be after the next tier of wingers? I wonder if Calgary is done yet, or if they are going to their 'plan B' - assuming that they were in on Hall.

By my count, the Flames need at least one more RW to fill out the roster unless they make Buddy Robinson a regular, which isn't a great idea.

Brett Ritchie would add some snarl to the 4th line. Josh Leivo & Melker Karlsson are kind of interesting, too, assuming they're healthy. Those three made $1M, $1.5M & $2M respectively, so clearly they'd either need to take a pay cut or at least be willing to make close to the same in order to join Calgary.

[Calgary4LIfe]

FWIW, I actually agree with Dissentowner. I don't think that Gaudreau necessarily wants to move out east and that he won't want to re-sign in Calgary. Is he a 10 million dollar re-sign? I doubt very much that will be his ask unless salaries escalate. What's reasonable on a re-sign? I don't know, but I am willing to let him walk for free as long as the Flames continue to have a legitimate shot at the cup. That's my feelings.


As for the whole 'the league has figured Johnny out' argument, do people REALLY believe this? Sorry, but this seems like a lazy and quite absurd argument. You are telling me that the greatest hockey minds in the hockey world took SEVEN SEASONS to figure out how to stop Gaudreau?


Maybe the more reasonable explanation is that the other lines haven't stepped up enough. Let me explain my rationalization here:


Years ago, I got first pick overall in my playoff pool. With that pick, I selected Crosby, and he was on fire for the first two rounds. Most of my picks worked out great (I had 3 Pens that year, and they won the cup). In the 3rd and 4th round, Sidney dried up. Malkin took over, and he won the Conn Smythe that year. On the fricken last game of the playoffs, my buddy passed me.


So, does Sidney suck? Did the other team 'figure him out' in the last 2 rounds? Anyone want to believe that lazy rationalization? Or was it that he got all the tough assignments and most of the attention from the other teams, and then they did a good enough job on him, but didn't have enough to focus on Malkin?


That's Calgary. They don't have a Malkin. I argue that they scored enough to win during the playoffs - they just allowed the other team to score more. Markstrom I hope solves that. However, what Calgary needs is another strong line. The other teams zero-in on the top line. Their entire gameplan is all about stopping the top line.


In small sample sizes, yes, it looks like the top line can't produce. However, most of the team took a step back last season. Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Giordano, Brodie, Hanifin, etc... All pretty much down years to differing extents. What accounts for all this downturn? Father time caught up to Gio? Brodie just forgetting how to be effective? Monahan being lazy and forgot where to go to score? Lindholm being a flash in the pan?



I think it is a systems issue. This team's best players produce better off the rush. Now, please don't give me an argument that "you can't score off the rush in the playoffs". That's lazy, and you haven't been paying attention if you believe that. Not every goal is a garbage goal after a net-front battle. There are always plenty of goals that come off the rush, from defensive breakdowns, from breakaways, from tic-tac-toe plays, etc. Not everything is generated off the cycle. Flames don't HAVE to play dump and chase all the time. Maybe some lines can dump and chase and generate off the boards, while others can try and score off the rush?



Design a system that fits the Flames. I want to see a faster transition, less dumping the puck into the corner when the top line is out there, more backchecking pressure, and more defensive zone pressure. To me, this is how this team should be playing regularly. I am hoping Ward really considers all the players' strengths and implements something that is decent defensively and provides the team with enough options to generate offence.


Small sample-sizes say that Gaudreau can't produce in the playoffs, but more than reasonable explanations as to why. That second line has to be better then. Tkachuk HAS to produce more when the top line isn't. Even still, I think the Flames produced enough offence, and with Markstrom in net, they get by Dallas.



Johnny isn't the problem. The league didn't take 7 damn years to 'figure him out'. If you can make a trade to improve the team to win now, then do it, but I am skeptical at this point. If the team wants to make a trade as a pure asset retention for Gaudreau.. well, that's fine too, but they might as well start the rebuild if they are more interested in asset accumulation than winning the cup. I am ok with that too by the way.


I guess I am just tired of constantly reading that Gaudreau is not a Claude Lemieux type (a.k.a. Sam Bennett!). You don't produce in the playoffs until you do, and for as long as Calgary is a one line wonder in the playoffs, they are going to be easier to shut down, especially when they are making it easier for the other team to do so by trying to play the top line along the boards. That's my beef. The league has figured out Johnny just as well as the league has figured out Sidney. There are many series where Crosby didn't produce even in his prime - that's what happens when you become a focal-point to the opposing team's defensive strategy. In these short sample sizes of playoff series where the Flames are one and done, it just looks worse than it really is.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

FWIW, I actually agree with Dissentowner. I don't think that Gaudreau necessarily wants to move out east and that he won't want to re-sign in Calgary. Is he a 10 million dollar re-sign? I doubt very much that will be his ask unless salaries escalate. What's reasonable on a re-sign? I don't know, but I am willing to let him walk for free as long as the Flames continue to have a legitimate shot at the cup. That's my feelings.


As for the whole 'the league has figured Johnny out' argument, do people REALLY believe this? Sorry, but this seems like a lazy and quite absurd argument. You are telling me that the greatest hockey minds in the hockey world took SEVEN SEASONS to figure out how to stop Gaudreau?


Maybe the more reasonable explanation is that the other lines haven't stepped up enough. Let me explain my rationalization here:


Years ago, I got first pick overall in my playoff pool. With that pick, I selected Crosby, and he was on fire for the first two rounds. Most of my picks worked out great (I had 3 Pens that year, and they won the cup). In the 3rd and 4th round, Sidney dried up. Malkin took over, and he won the Conn Smythe that year. On the fricken last game of the playoffs, my buddy passed me.


So, does Sidney suck? Did the other team 'figure him out' in the last 2 rounds? Anyone want to believe that lazy rationalization? Or was it that he got all the tough assignments and most of the attention from the other teams, and then they did a good enough job on him, but didn't have enough to focus on Malkin?


That's Calgary. They don't have a Malkin. I argue that they scored enough to win during the playoffs - they just allowed the other team to score more. Markstrom I hope solves that. However, what Calgary needs is another strong line. The other teams zero-in on the top line. Their entire gameplan is all about stopping the top line.


In small sample sizes, yes, it looks like the top line can't produce. However, most of the team took a step back last season. Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Giordano, Brodie, Hanifin, etc... All pretty much down years to differing extents. What accounts for all this downturn? Father time caught up to Gio? Brodie just forgetting how to be effective? Monahan being lazy and forgot where to go to score? Lindholm being a flash in the pan?



I think it is a systems issue. This team's best players produce better off the rush. Now, please don't give me an argument that "you can't score off the rush in the playoffs". That's lazy, and you haven't been paying attention if you believe that. Not every goal is a garbage goal after a net-front battle. There are always plenty of goals that come off the rush, from defensive breakdowns, from breakaways, from tic-tac-toe plays, etc. Not everything is generated off the cycle. Flames don't HAVE to play dump and chase all the time. Maybe some lines can dump and chase and generate off the boards, while others can try and score off the rush?



Design a system that fits the Flames. I want to see a faster transition, less dumping the puck into the corner when the top line is out there, more backchecking pressure, and more defensive zone pressure. To me, this is how this team should be playing regularly. I am hoping Ward really considers all the players' strengths and implements something that is decent defensively and provides the team with enough options to generate offence.


Small sample-sizes say that Gaudreau can't produce in the playoffs, but more than reasonable explanations as to why. That second line has to be better then. Tkachuk HAS to produce more when the top line isn't. Even still, I think the Flames produced enough offence, and with Markstrom in net, they get by Dallas.



Johnny isn't the problem. The league didn't take 7 damn years to 'figure him out'. If you can make a trade to improve the team to win now, then do it, but I am skeptical at this point. If the team wants to make a trade as a pure asset retention for Gaudreau.. well, that's fine too, but they might as well start the rebuild if they are more interested in asset accumulation than winning the cup. I am ok with that too by the way.


I guess I am just tired of constantly reading that Gaudreau is not a Claude Lemieux type (a.k.a. Sam Bennett!). You don't produce in the playoffs until you do, and for as long as Calgary is a one line wonder in the playoffs, they are going to be easier to shut down, especially when they are making it easier for the other team to do so by trying to play the top line along the boards. That's my beef. The league has figured out Johnny just as well as the league has figured out Sidney. There are many series where Crosby didn't produce even in his prime - that's what happens when you become a focal-point to the opposing team's defensive strategy. In these short sample sizes of playoff series where the Flames are one and done, it just looks worse than it really is.

Haha, you are right. It's one of the silliest things that get touted on here regularly.

That and, you can't win with Gaudreau, even though he has won and been the reason his teams won, at pretty much every level and competition he has ever played at.

It's a lazy generalization, they haven't won, so they can't.

Even though that same rationalization can be applied to every player who hasn't won a Cup.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The first, sure. The second - I’d move Rittich but he needs no sweetener and the return is terrible. As for Ceci - meh.

I’m not so sure on Rittich. He has lost the net 2 seasons in a row . Tre said he is seeing a sports psychologist. Then there is the Campbell comment that he did not practice well in the bubble. I can’t imagine teams are lining up for that .

[Azhouse]

Grab a cheap Perry to teach these jam tarts what it takes to sacrifice and score an OT goal in the playoffs (if the forward lineup doesn't change).

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

Grab a cheap Perry to teach these jam tarts what it takes to sacrifice and score an OT goal in the playoffs (if the forward lineup doesn't change).

While I see how Perry might be beneficial to the Flames, I think the price wouldn't be worth it. Perry is a 30pt player at this point, and his intangibles are not worth the kind of money he will be asking for.

I'd be worried about another Lucic situation, pay for a couple big playoff games and watch him coast around all regular season.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

As for the whole 'the league has figured Johnny out' argument, do people REALLY believe this? Sorry, but this seems like a lazy and quite absurd argument. You are telling me that the greatest hockey minds in the hockey world took SEVEN SEASONS to figure out how to stop Gaudreau?

Who's arguing that they only figured out how to stop him now? He hasn't been very good in the post-season since his rookie year: 19gp 4g 10p. And only 1 EVG and 1 EVA in there.

He is career PPG+ in the regular season against each of the other 3 divisions. But only 136p in 166gp against the Pacific.


A reasonable explanation is that if you play frequently enough to actually gameplan for him, he isn't that hard to slow down...

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Hells Bells

While I see how Perry might be beneficial to the Flames, I think the price wouldn't be worth it. Perry is a 30pt player at this point, and his intangibles are not worth the kind of money he will be asking for.

I'd be worried about another Lucic situation, pay for a couple big playoff games and watch him coast around all regular season.

Then trade for him or someone like him at the deadline. This forward group is lacking when it matters most. Tkachuk is supposed to be that guy but his play off performances have been less than stellar in my eyes (before all the Chucky/ advanced stats guys get all up in my grill).

[AC]

I'm really hoping we find a way to add another player if we're not going to make a big trade. Granlund, Duclair, Galchenyuk, Leivo, etc.