2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Monahammer]

I was able to work it like this:





We're left with 1.85 million to sign two 4th line forwards. That's including carrying Domingue and Petrovic as a 3rd G and 7th D. Given the FA/PTO market has some interesting players that will require very little on short term contracts I think this is easily achievable. The situation actually improves if we keep Hanifin but I think that's part of the benefit for Buffalo. I break the trade down like this:

Mangiapane < Reinhart
Hanifin > Ristolainen
Rittich >= Ullmark

[868904]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I mean there were some comparables that went for low picks. Austin Watson is the one I am thinking off the top of my head.

There's also the term aspect. Ryan is a UFA after this season whereas many of the cheap cap dumps have term on them.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I did a quick mock up.

Mangi, Rittich for Reinhart, Hutton (50% retained).

Bought out Ryan.

Was only $8.3 million cap space left (assuming Kylington + Petrovic rounded out the D at league minimum) and needing to sign Reinhart plus add an entire 4th line plus 1-2 extra forwards.

Very, very tight unless you get some sort of bargain out of Reinhart.

It obviously depends on what Reinhart signs for. He only made $3.8 before so I was hoping he'd come in at $5 or less.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

If we could add Reinhart for Mangiapane, trade Ryan for a pick and sign some depth guys for cheap I don’t know how that wouldn’t be seen as a big win.

My one concern would be I would prefer to keep Rittich but I also wouldn’t mind seeing him get a legitimate chance to be a starter elsewhere cause it isn’t happening here now that Markstrom signed.

Rittich is obviously better than anyone who would replace him. But he's an emotional guy and who knows how he's going to take to Markstrom coming in. Actually I suspect the Flames know because Talbot took over as starter (and there were rumours that Rittich lost focus and drive in the bubble).

[Jeff Lebowski]

CGY group (especially) the forward group is heavy on high hockey IQ (it's what they look for - drafting, UFA, pro scouts) compete and obviously skill but it seems to me skill is not at the top (could be wrong).

When clicking you are going to get the 107 pt regular season team where that hockey IQ results in plays being made and goals scored. However when those strengths are pitted against physical attributes like speed and power (Mackinnon, Hesikanen) or just power (big bodies like Radulov, Zadorov and the like) the physical attributes capture the imagination.

What the hell am I talking about? Well CGY attack is going to be this nice play - three way passing and guys reading off each other to anticipate the play.
COL or DAL attack will be a powerful dash up the ice, defenders falling by the wayside to keep up, and it just takes people out of their seats. They want that on their team! How do you measure hockey IQ? You can use a stopwatch to see who's fast.

During playoffs - the space and time get limited so it seems reasonable to think you have to physically overcome the opponent rather than strategically or tactically.

Reinhart is smart - he can read those plays but I think CGY really needs that power and speed to back the defenders off - that's what's missing (relative to what people seem jealous of other teams of having over CGY).

CGY may need more doers in their top 6 than thinkers (they have that in spades). Maybe you can't get those physical top 6 unless you draft top 3 (teams won't give them up).

They played ugly hockey but DAL being able to throw Gurianov, Hintz at CGY was hard to handle (I know these guys aren't top 6 but big, fast and powerful is good anywhere in the lineup).

Who in CGY top 6 can back opponents off with some physical tool(s)? Who in the bottom 6?

Get some guys who put the opponent on their heels! Is that Reinhart?

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Mangiapane < Reinhart
Hanifin > Ristolainen
Rittich >= Ullmark

so... why do we do this?

[ComixZone]

Mangiapane > Reinhart

Mangiapane is on the brink of establishing himself as part of the new core up front/

If there's a deal to be had with Buffalo, I'd like to see:

To BUF: Sean Monahan
To CGY: Dylan Cozens, Sam Reinhart

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Mangiapane > Reinhart

Mangiapane is on the brink of establishing himself as part of the new core up front/

If there's a deal to be had with Buffalo, I'd like to see:

To BUF: Sean Monahan
To CGY: Dylan Cozens, Sam Reinhart

Ha ha ha. No.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Mangiapane < Reinhart
Hanifin > Ristolainen
Rittich >= Ullmark

How about we just do Mangiapane, Rittich, and a 2nd for Reinhart & Ullmark and a 4th? Leave Hanifin and Ristolainen where they are.

If the Flames need another RD they can sign Vatanen, Ceci, Pysyk, Polak, Stone, Bowey, or Goloubef as a bottom paid defenseman. No use in making a lateral move or a move that makes use weaker on the blueline.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ha ha ha. No.

Based on history to date, no. But the next 3 seasons may tell a different tale.
I'm not saying Mangiapane is better than Reinhart but it is not out of the question that he could be. There is a lot to like about his upside.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Icon

so... why do we do this?

Imo the gap between Mangi and Reinhart is larger than the gap between Risto and Hanifin. Rittich to Ullmark is mostly to save us money.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by New Era

How about we just do Mangiapane, Rittich, and a 2nd for Reinhart & Ullmark and a 4th? Leave Hanifin and Ristolainen where they are.

If the Flames need another RD they can sign Vatanen, Ceci, Pysyk, Polak, Stone, Bowey, or Goloubef as a bottom paid defenseman. No use in making a lateral move or a move that makes use weaker on the blueline.

That works too, I've just seen tons of smoke around Hanifin. The 2nd here makes up the value gap I perceive.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ha ha ha. No.

Ha ha ha. Yes.

Andrew Mangiapane is on the brink of establishing himself as a top-end, play driving winger, and in the situation where we could potentially sign him longterm where he'll be able to outplay his contract by a good amount.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1316185674597367808

https://twitter.com/user/status/1284301301090639872

Andrew Mangiapane and Sam Reinhart both scored 17 EV goals in 2019/2020 but Mangiapane did it while averaging 13:42 of ice-time per night, while Reinhart did it while playing 20:38 a night - and with all that extra time, including significant PP time, he managed to score a minor 5 goals more than Mangiapane, all of which came on the PP. Mangiapane also did it in 68 games, whereas Reinhart did it in 69 - while also playing with Jack Eichel both during 5v5 play and on the PP. Andrew Mangiapane is being ridiculously underrated.

I think the conversation should be more focused around Sean Monahan Vs. Sam Reinhart, rather than Andrew Mangiapane.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by New Era

How about we just do Mangiapane, Rittich, and a 2nd for Reinhart & Ullmark and a 4th? Leave Hanifin and Ristolainen where they are.

If the Flames need another RD they can sign Vatanen, Ceci, Pysyk, Polak, Stone, Bowey, or Goloubef as a bottom paid defenseman. No use in making a lateral move or a move that makes use weaker on the blueline.

Yeah, I really don't understand the folks that keep trying to shoe horn another expensive RHD into the Flames line up.

That need was squashed the second the Flames signed Tanev, whether you are a fan of Tanev or not.

What they could use is a cheap veteran bottom pairing RHD, or a young cheap bottom pairing RHD with upside.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, I really don't understand the folks that keep trying to shoe horn another expensive RHD into the Flames line up.

That need was squashed the second the Flames signed Tanev, whether you are a fan of Tanev or not.

What they could use is a cheap veteran bottom pairing RHD, or a young cheap bottom pairing RHD with upside.

Agreed, no need or desire for an expensive 3rd pairing defenceman.

Giordano - Tanev
Hanifin - Andersson
Valimaki - Kylington

That's my top six as we stand here today - and I'd hope we sign Kevin Connauton to a league-minimum contract to be our 7th defenceman.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Ha ha ha. Yes.

Andrew Mangiapane is on the brink of establishing himself as a top-end, play driving winger, and in the situation where we could potentially sign him longterm where he'll be able to outplay his contract by a good amount.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1316185674597367808

https://twitter.com/user/status/1284301301090639872

Andrew Mangiapane and Sam Reinhart both scored 17 EV goals in 2019/2020 but Mangiapane did it while averaging 13:42 of ice-time per night, while Reinhart did it while playing 20:38 a night - and with all that extra time, including significant PP time, he managed to score a minor 5 goals more than Mangiapane, all of which came on the PP.

I think the conversation should be more focused around Sean Monahan Vs. Sam Reinhart, rather than Andrew Mangiapane.

Disagree with this. The analutic love affair with a 33 point lhs winger is crazy.

So let's trade the best center on the team instead of a winger of which we have 3 better of. Okie dokie.

Trade Gaidreau then if you really really think mangiapane can do more while making less. You don't subtract established top 6 centers. You add to them.


And this is exactly why I hate fancy stats. Nothing but mirages.

[Roof-Daddy]

Also, people seem to be thinking it's something around Mangiapane plus for Reinhart, but I'm thinking it would be bigger than that myself. Something around Reinhart plus for Gaudreau.

Flames would get a young top 6 right wing to round out the top 6 who is an RFA and can be locked in for years, while at the same time they'd clear some cap and be able to lock Mangiapane in to a potential long term bargain deal like they did with Rasmus.

(Plus whatever the plus is coming with Reinhart)

Not that I'm a fan of the idea, but it's something I could see if the Flames FO thinks Gaudreau is just playing out the string here until he can get to UFA.

[TheScorpion]

Connauton would be ok but I think there are better defensemen who might be available for the same price:

Kulikov
Hutton
Ceci?
Mueller
Rutta
Fantenberg

[AustinL_NHL]

Mangiapane is a play-driving, fantastic forward who's on the verge of being a top-end player for the Flames and fans have no problem throwing him away.

Trading him would be a horrible bet

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Disagree with this. The analutic love affair with a 33 point lhs winger is crazy.

So let's trade the best center on the team instead of a winger of which we have 3 better of. Okie dokie.

Trade Gaidreau then if you really really think mangiapane can do more while making less. You don't subtract established top 6 centers. You add to them.


And this is exactly why I hate fancy stats. Nothing but mirages.

What is "fancy" about what I'm saying there?

Andrew Mangiapane faces tough competition.

Andrew Mangiapane had 17 even strength goals while playing below 14 minutes a night.

There's nothing fancy being touted here. They are basic stats and a simplistic comparison of production vs. ice time.

Sean Monahan had a bad season, and the top line struggled significantly and again let us down in the playoffs during 5v5 play. We can dance around that all we want, but until you improve that, the issue will persist. So even if we keep Monahan, why would we trade Mangiapane for Reinhart when Mangiapane is the better player? Because Reinhart is a RHS? Well, that's a moronic idea.