[Signing] Flames sign Chris Tanev (4 years, $4.5 million AAV)

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dump and chase just won the cup.

Dump and chase with an elite 1C and elite 1D. Two things we lack at present.

[Iggy Snipe]

Brodie was a smooth skating D man, who played a lot of minutes for Calgary. Those minutes will now be played by Anderson/Valimaki/Tanev.

Honestly, why would anyone be upset Brodie left? He got $h!t on non stop in Calgary, and he was a massive defensive liability. Oh and since he has been playing for the team, the Flames have made it past round one, ONCE.

Calgary needed to shake things up, and letting a guy like Brodie walk is step one.

The way I See it, Tanev is 500,000 cheaper, and a much more reliable defender. I will take that all day long.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by flam12345

That's a bit harsh. There's almost nobody arguing against the Markstrom deal. Personally i don't mind that deal, because you have to do it in my mind, but it is still worrisome. And with our latest history with UFA signings it's fair to not be fond of it. The same was said when Neal and Brouwer signed. ("You're nor real fans"; You're so negative"). And a lot of the critics were right. Let's see how this one is going to play out.

The people that are critical, I have zero problem with. Guys like GrantedEV are critical but smart, valuable posters with good opinions that contribute good things to the community. CP would suck if it was all homers all the time.

But there's more than a handful of posters that are consistantly rooting against Treliving more than they root for the Flames

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Dump and chase with an elite 1C and elite 1D. Two things we lack at present.

Those guys weren’t on the ice the whole time of course. The point is that dump and chase isn’t necessarily boring or a bad system. TB dumped but man, did they get after it right away. The opposing D had zero time to react. Calgary has players who can do that - Lindholm/Dube/Mangiapane/Backlund and quick enough, and so is Gaudreau. And when Monahan and Tkachuk and even Lucic get in they are pretty good at retrieval (Tkachuk is elite in the corner).

It’s not a good system unless played with energy. Just like playing off the rush or possession to a cycling game isn’t good if It’s just Johnny carrying and buttonhooking into coverage.

[bzoo02]

The way I see it is Tanev is a Hamonic replacement and the team hopes that Razz will step up to replace Brodie's skill set.

Also I think we see Hanifin/Razz supplant Gio/Tanev as the top pairing at some point this year...if Hanifin doesn't get traded.

Or there's the chance of a Gio/Razz and Hanifin/Tanev pairing.

Too many variables at this point to call this signing a success or failure yet.

[Nelson]

Tanev is rated by Corsica Hockey as the 90th best RD in the NHL (70.9). So, Corsica Hockey thinks Tanev is a low end 3rd pairing RD.

I believe Corsica Hockey.

Therefore, I think we just paid $18.5M over 4 years for a low end 3rd pairing RD.

I predict a buy out.

I'm so angry at Treliving for making such a brilliant Markstrom signing and then following it up with this garbage.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Those guys weren’t on the ice the whole time of course. The point is that dump and chase isn’t necessarily boring or a bad system. TB dumped but man, did they get after it right away. The opposing D had zero time to react. Calgary has players who can do that - Lindholm/Dube/Mangiapane/Backlund and quick enough, and so is Gaudreau. And when Monahan and Tkachuk and even Lucic get in they are pretty good at retrieval (Tkachuk is elite in the corner).

It’s not a good system unless played with energy. Just like playing off the rush or possession to a cycling game isn’t good if It’s just Johnny carrying and buttonhooking into coverage.

I just don't see dump and chase working for us without more transition threats at defense and centre. The loss of prime Gio, of Brodie, and the stagnancy of Monahan and Lindholm's development has kind of put us in a no-man's land.

I guess when I think of a successful dump and chase, the chase part requires a strong puck carrier to create momentum through the middle, while the retrievers don't have to stop up at the blueline. As you said, the Gaudreau button hook is diametrically opposed to this style, but it's necessary as Gaudreau typically leads the rush from the wing, his cenfre and other winger trailing.

If they want to play that rush-but-chase style that made Tampa successful, they need to consider elevating guys like Valimaki, Kylington, Dube, and Bennett up the lineup as these four guys thrive in that style more than Lindholm, Monahan, Current Gio, and Tanev. I don't see that happening. For all intents and purposes these players will be in our bottom six / bottom four.

Remember the Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway line? They dumped and chased to perfection. Because you had Ryan as a strong puck carrier, and the two wingers offset that with a clearly defined role in transition. I don't see that on our top line and ostensible top pair.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Tanev is rated by Corsica Hockey as the 90th best RD in the NHL (70.9). So, Corsica Hockey thinks Tanev is a low end 3rd pairing RD.

I believe Corsica Hockey.

Therefore, I think we just paid $18.5M over 4 years for a low end 3rd pairing RD.

I predict a buy out.

I'm so angry at Treliving for making such a brilliant Markstrom signing and then following it up with this garbage.

Being an NHL GM must be so easy. Just look at Corsica Hockey for all the answers.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Tanev is rated by Corsica Hockey as the 90th best RD in the NHL (70.9). So, Corsica Hockey thinks Tanev is a low end 3rd pairing RD.

I believe Corsica Hockey.

Therefore, I think we just paid $18.5M over 4 years for a low end 3rd pairing RD.

I predict a buy out.

I'm so angry at Treliving for making such a brilliant Markstrom signing and then following it up with this garbage.

Where did you look, because Corsica currently has no player rankings when I try.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I just don't see dump and chase working for us without more transition threats at defense and centre. The loss of prime Gio, of Brodie, and the stagnancy of Monahan and Lindholm's development has kind of put us in a no-man's land.

I guess when I think of a successful dump and chase, the chase part requires a strong puck carrier to create momentum through the middle, while the retrievers don't have to stop up at the blueline. As you said, the Gaudreau button hook is diametrically opposed to this style, but it's necessary as Gaudreau typically leads the rush from the wing, his cenfre and other winger trailing.

If they want to play that rush-but-chase style that made Tampa successful, they need to consider elevating guys like Valimaki, Kylington, Dube, and Bennett up the lineup as these four guys thrive in that style more than Lindholm, Monahan, Current Gio, and Tanev. I don't see that happening. For all intents and purposes these players will be in our bottom six / bottom four.

Remember the Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway line? They dumped and chased to perfection. Because you had Ryan as a strong puck carrier, and the two wingers offset that with a clearly defined role in transition. I don't see that on our top line and ostensible top pair.

Good post. You need players who are good at zone entries. The top line has one only, which makes for easy coverage. That’s why Sam and Dube together were so effective.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Valimaki

Hasn’t played meaningful hockey in 18 months.

I like the kid, I’m optimistic, but there’s going to be an adjustment period where the team learns just how much of the heavy lifting Brodie did around here.

Valimaki is nowhere near ready to do the things Brodie did.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Fire

Being an NHL GM must be so easy. Just look at Corsica Hockey for all the answers.

Mock if you must, but would you say Troy Brouwer was an absolute disaster as a Calgary Flame? Because that's where this is concerning to me - the underlying numbers are comparable.

Of course you don't make your decisions by only using analytics, but they are there (and teams have better models), and they can be helpful.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I just don't see dump and chase working for us without more transition threats at defense and centre. The loss of prime Gio, of Brodie, and the stagnancy of Monahan and Lindholm's development has kind of put us in a no-man's land.

I guess when I think of a successful dump and chase, the chase part requires a strong puck carrier to create momentum through the middle, while the retrievers don't have to stop up at the blueline. As you said, the Gaudreau button hook is diametrically opposed to this style, but it's necessary as Gaudreau typically leads the rush from the wing, his cenfre and other winger trailing.

If they want to play that rush-but-chase style that made Tampa successful, they need to consider elevating guys like Valimaki, Kylington, Dube, and Bennett up the lineup as these four guys thrive in that style more than Lindholm, Monahan, Current Gio, and Tanev. I don't see that happening. For all intents and purposes these players will be in our bottom six / bottom four.

Remember the Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway line? They dumped and chased to perfection. Because you had Ryan as a strong puck carrier, and the two wingers offset that with a clearly defined role in transition. I don't see that on our top line and ostensible top pair.

I think you can now have a strong puck carrier on all lines, especially depending on what happens with Gaudreau or Hall. I would like to see Monahan carry up the middle more and I think he can do it. But Gaudreau or Lindholm could carry through the middle more too, notwithstanding their faceoff position. The other lines aren’t an issue: Backlund, Bennett, Ryan all like to carry. To me the issue has been wingers accompanying with speed. It hasn’t happened enough.

That all said, I’m not saying the Flames should play dump and chase. I was just reacting to someone saying dump and chase is plodding. I don’t think it is. I also don;t think the Flames played a dump and chase style under Ward, even though people said so.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Iggy Snipe

Brodie was a smooth skating D man, who played a lot of minutes for Calgary. Those minutes will now be played by Anderson/Valimaki/Tanev.

Honestly, why would anyone be upset Brodie left? He got $h!t on non stop in Calgary, and he was a massive defensive liability. Oh and since he has been playing for the team, the Flames have made it past round one, ONCE.

Calgary needed to shake things up, and letting a guy like Brodie walk is step one.

The way I See it, Tanev is 500,000 cheaper, and a much more reliable defender. I will take that all day long.

Tanev replaces Hamonic, not Brodie.

Think of the extra $600k as the price we pay for not including draft picks to acquire a flawed, but functional defenseman that fills a much needed role on the team.

Every other D on the team is a good possession player, and every other D has all his teeth.

You can’t have a defence corps that has all its teeth.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Hasn’t played meaningful hockey in 18 months.

I like the kid, I’m optimistic, but there’s going to be an adjustment period where the team learns just how much of the heavy lifting Brodie did around here.

Valimaki is nowhere near ready to do the things Brodie did.

He’s playing meaningful hockey right now.

[Rick M.]

I’d like to see Kylington get a shot at a full time role. He’s the only D-man who can match Brodie’s skating. He’d need to be paired with a partner who is very sound on the defensive side of the game.

[Pipty]

Same old UFA signings that likely look bad in a year. Flames continue our usual mediocrity that we have been the past 20+ years. The oil had it partially correct at least to give up a few seasons to draft top 3. Luckily they have terrible draft after first round and also terrible asset management.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

I’d like to see Kylington get a shot at a full time role. He’s the only D-man who can match Brodie’s skating. He’d need to be paired with a partner who is very sound on the defensive side of the game.

People here underrate Hanifin’s skating. It’s right up there with Brodie and Kylington. I think he’s almost as fast as Kylington and maybe better laterally. And I think Brodie was slowing down. I also recall that Valimaki has good wheels.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He’s playing meaningful hockey right now.

Fair enough. But they aren’t just going to throw him in the deep end and say “be Brodie”.

Brodie touched the puck a LOT.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That's the point, though. I'd rather just keep Ryan because he's gone after next year and him leaving will free space for the kids. Tanev is IMO a worse player on a worse contract and he's probably going to be on the books for at least the next four years.

But I would happily be wrong about this. What number is he going to wear? Will Valimaki give up #8?

Ryan is not a replacement for Tanev.
It is Ryan and replacement for Tanev and replacement. We need to know the two replacements to make this analysis.
And that’s next year’s analysis, not this year’s.