2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

LeBrun has the Preds, Jackets and maybe Oilers as suitors for Hall. No Flames connection outside of Pagnotta and Eklund

and the fact that we’ve tried to acquire him before.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

LeBrun has the Preds, Jackets and maybe Oilers as suitors for Hall. No Flames connection outside of Pagnotta and Eklund

Hasn't Friedman mentioned the Flames/Hall many times?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I forget it was Carolina that ruined Lack. My point stands, though the blame falls somewhere else.

Counter point to that is when Clark got Bobrovsky he wasn't great. When Clark got Markstrom, he was real bad.Korpisalo and Merzlikins are two guys he specifically targeted for Columbus before he left. He either built or rebuilt these guys. It's what makes him so sought after.

Exactly my point. you don't see many examples or any examples of a goalie who Jordan Sigalet made noticeably better.

I know nothing about goalie coaches but I know that you can compare Clark and Sigalet and i'd reckon clark is a better coach that sigalet based on the historical performances of goalies he has coached

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

You can't get blood out of a stone. Goaltending coaches aren't around to make bad goalies great, their job is to work with goaltenders and help them make tweaks to improve their game; the goalie needs to have talent to start with.

Let's not pretend guys like Elliott, Hiller, even Talbot were totally talentless. They've had more success elsewhere than they had as Flames. Chad Johnson was a guy who came in and gave us a couple months of really damn good goaltending, and then fell off the map instead of sustaining it. David Rittich has started consecutive seasons as our best goaltender, and fallen off the map without sustaining it.

About the only goaltender who was better at the end of a season than the beginning since Sigalet got here was Smith in 2018-19 - and Smith was outright awful that year so he had virtually nowhere to go but up.

Am I blaming Sigalet for none of those guys being Patrick Roy?

no.

But you look at what a guy like Mitch Korn has done in different stops - Nashville, then Washington, and now Long Island, and you have to at least admit that some goalie coaches wring the most out of the hand he's dealt.

Good goalie coaches can take a reclamation project like Devan Dubnyk in 2014-15, and actually help him reach his potential.

The guy the Canucks have is another one who always seems to get the most out of his goalies.

Sigalet is just there. Year after year we end the season being miffed about goaltending, but it's not like those players have never shown a high level for brief periods, particularily coming into the early parts of seasons before they've spent time with Sigalet.

Why can't we question if Sigalet's methods are simply ineffective? It's a broad base of goalies, and none of them had their best seasons with Sigalet, unless they've only ever played for Sigalet.

Organizationally, we've even had talented goalie prospects like Gillies and Parsons completely fall off the map from far higher expectations. Sigalet might not be their direct goalie coach but he has a lot of input in their development.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

You can't get blood out of a stone. Goaltending coaches aren't around to make bad goalies great, their job is to work with goaltenders and help them make tweaks to improve their game; the goalie needs to have talent to start with.

A good coach gets MORE out of the talent they have.

I have never seen any evidence this ever has happened with the Flames goalies.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Let's not pretend guys like Elliott, Hiller, even Talbot were totally talentless. They've had more success elsewhere than they had as Flames. Chad Johnson was a guy who came in and gave us a couple months of really damn good goaltending, and then fell off the map instead of sustaining it. David Rittich has started consecutive seasons as our best goaltender, and fallen off the map without sustaining it.

About the only goaltender who was better at the end of a season than the beginning since Sigalet got here was Smith in 2018-19 - and Smith was outright awful that year so he had virtually nowhere to go but up.

Am I blaming Sigalet for none of those guys being Patrick Roy?

no.

But you look at what a guy like Mitch Korn has done in different stops - Nashville, then Washington, and now Long Island, and you have to at least admit that some goalie coaches wring the most out of the hand he's dealt.

Good goalie coaches can take a reclamation project like Devan Dubnyk in 2014-15, and actually help him reach his potential.

The guy the Canucks have is another one who always seems to get the most out of his goalies.

Sigalet is just there. Year after year we end the season being miffed about goaltending, but it's not like those players have never shown a high level for brief periods, particularily coming into the early parts of seasons before they've spent time with Sigalet.

Why can't we question if Sigalet's methods are simply ineffective? It's a broad base of goalies, and none of them had their best seasons with Sigalet, unless they've only ever played for Sigalet.

Organizationally, we've even had talented goalie prospects like Gillies and Parsons completely fall off the map from far higher expectations. Sigalet might not be their direct goalie coach but he has a lot of input in their development.

Hiller had his best season in a while (since vertigo) under Sigalet, but was reaching the end of his career.
Elliott has been the same since leaving Calgary, up and down; which is also who he was in STL.
Talbot completely bounced back under Sigalet.
Smith is just simply declining physically, no coach can beat father time.
Rittich has been hurt at the mid-point each of the last two season. So blaming Sigalet for that seems a little unfair.

Korn is among the best, if not the best goalie coach in the world, maybe in the history of the game. That's like expecting a good coach to be Scotty Bowman.

Goalies, the people who actually know what the hell is going on have done nothing but praise Sigalet. But who cares when a bunch of know-it-all posters on the internet think they have insight into a job that they literally have no way to actually judge what Sigalet is doing.

I'm going to defer to the goalies and Treliving, who actually see what he does on a daily basis.

[GranteedEV]

"we don't have a top goalie coach so we should settle for a mediocre one because you can't expect excellence"

okay

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

"we don't have a top goalie coach so we should settle for a mediocre one because you can't expect excellence"

okay

Works for a lot of things, by the way.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

"we don't have a top goalie coach so we should settle for a mediocre one because you can't expect excellence"

okay

No, we have mediocre goaltenders and expecting the goalie coach to make them elite is the epitome of stupidity

[Jason14h]

Can't it be both

Our talent isn't good, and the coach isn't good?

One of the Flames problems is always settling for "Not the worst"

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

No, we have mediocre goaltenders and expecting the goalie coach to make them elite is the epitome of stupidity

And yet, in chasing Markstrom you guys are literally trying to get just that. An average goalie made great by great coaching.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

And yet, in chasing Markstrom you guys are literally trying to get just that. An average goalie made great by great coaching.

I have my doubts on that. I think your coach helped him reach his potential, but I doubt that is going to go away because he changes teams.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I have my doubts on that. I think your coach helped him reach his potential, but I doubt that is going to go away because he changes teams.

I don't think he will regress totally, but goalies are strange things. Does losing that constant tweaking and dialogue he has with Clark change something in his game? Even a small regression could be problematic.

Like, even if we keep Markstrom, I am worried since Clark is spending next year in Russia and not here.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I don't think he will regress totally, but goalies are strange things. Does losing that constant tweaking and dialogue he has with Clark change something in his game? Even a small regression could be problematic.

Like, even if we keep Markstrom, I am worried since Clark is spending next year in Russia and not here.

So Demko will falter too?

Or is he going to be okay, because you want him to?

[868904]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Like, even if we keep Markstrom, I am worried since Clark is spending next year in Russia and not here.

What's the deal with this? Why is he going to Russia?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Ramo is another goalie that gave Sigalet credit - specifically crediting him with the adjustments that Sigalet had him do. That's when he came back up from the AHL that last year, and was playing at .930 (or something like that) until he got injured.


I am not pro-Sigalet or anti-Sigalet - I just think this is an area that we don't have any visibility on to make a judgement either way. I have yet to hear one goalie say something negative about him, and now there are 3 goalies saying positive things. I will just believe the goalies at their word for now (though they might just be saying nice things just to say nice things).

[Toonage]

All I ever hear in regards tp Sigalet is how "the players like him". Usually from Treliving or Conroy. Never hear exactly what he is doing to better their game.

I assume he's a lot like a bartender. The goalies bounce their ideas, thoughts, feelings off him and he listens, offers up some advice.

I like my bartender, but I'm pretty sure he isn't helping me get better at a whole lot.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Ramo is another goalie that gave Sigalet credit - specifically crediting him with the adjustments that Sigalet had him do. That's when he came back up from the AHL that last year, and was playing at .930 (or something like that) until he got injured.


I am not pro-Sigalet or anti-Sigalet - I just think this is an area that we don't have any visibility on to make a judgement either way. I have yet to hear one goalie say something negative about him, and now there are 3 goalies saying positive things. I will just believe the goalies at their word for now (though they might just be saying nice things just to say nice things).

More than 3, I've heard/seen Rittich, Talbot, Smith, Elliott and Lack say great things about Sigalet, and I have no reason to doubt that Ramo did too.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So Demko will falter too?

Or is he going to be okay, because you want him to?

My concern is for goaltending in general in the Canucks system. Though Demko was tracking well even before Clark was hired I would still be more comfortable with Clark sticking around.

Originally Posted by 868904

What's the deal with this? Why is he going to Russia?

He does this pretty often.

Also, on the "players like him" thing. Clark usually has a fairly combative relationship with his charges. He isn't really thought of as a "nice guy" who "players like".

He isn't overly friendly and drives the players hard.

[Robbob]

Fan960 mentioning that news coming out of Vancouver that after the draft there should be some news on OEL to Vancouver...looks like Boston has backed out and things might be coming to a close.