2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Clearly you missed my point.

People exaggerate how good and bad players based on their expectations. That was my point, no more, no less.

I also don't understand why people are so insistent than PP goals mean less.

I just don’t think you did a good job of making that point. I apologize maybe I don’t understand. To be clear what you are saying is Monahan scored just as much as Bennett in the playoffs and therefore was just as good and effective but it is viewed negatively because people expect more out of Monahan?

Outside of points they weren’t equal. Bennett was far more impactful in other areas of the game than Sean. Again that is just reading the stat sheet in my opinion.

Maybe I am still missing the point and if so my apologies it is bedtime.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Suspect you have your own bias about other fans
Not defensive
Just drives me nuts when people assign singular opinions to a site where every day there are passionate arguments about almost everything

Ok I will try and be more specific and less general. No problem.

Any rumours by the way?

How come the “insiders” all regurgitate stuff that almost any tuned in fan could predict but never know that Bjugstad is about to be dealt or that Staal was going to be dealt shortly after submitting his 10 team NT list.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You said nobody would "take on Gaudreau at his salary in a flat cap"

FFS you are kidding right? Points per $$$ Gaudreau is one of the best non elc contracts over the last 3 seasons.

If Gaudreau is available he is at the top of the trade list...a few months of Taylor Hall just got a pretty big return

Besides if the return isn't massive they won't trade him now

I guess we will see. I can tell you are very passionate about your opinion on this. Perhaps you will be right, im predicting otherwise.

Edit. Also agree they shouldn’t deal JG if the value isnt there but I think there is some pressure to consider it before his NTC kicks in. Correct me if I am mistaken.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Poster

I guess we will see. I can tell you are very passionate about your opinion on this. Perhaps you will be right, in predicting otherwise.

Edit. Also agree they shouldn’t deal JG if the value is there but I think there is some pressure to consider it before his NTC kicks in. Correct me if I am mistaken.

His NTC kicks in after next season whenever that is...why would there be pressure to make a bad deal?

What PPG player making under 7M has ever been traded? Value is high its not a homer take.

[TheScorpion]

To be fair, Artemi Panarin was traded for Brandon Saad.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

The guy isn't wrong. Players get judged too much on expectations, not what they actually do and fans have a habit of making a player who didn't live up to their exceptions out to be garbage and one who exceeds as great.

Case in point. Monahan finished with the same number of points as Bennett in the playoffs, one has his one circle-jerk the other "isn't a #1C" and others want to trade him for a second pairing defenseman. Gaudreau had 1 fewer point than Monahan and Bennett and he's a playoff failure and "can't get it done"

Holy hell this again.

Dude, Bennett drove play at 5v5 and generated points. Putting up 8 points in 10 games while playing 3rd line minutes is impressive as hell.

Monahan did not drive play at 5v5 play. Putting up 8 points in 10 games is still impressive though. If he could figure out a way to be a better 5v5 player, it would be great for this team - just like if Bennett can drive play as a 3rd line centre with some solid wingers. It takes all sorts of players to win a cup, and Monahan and Gaudreau have drawn fair criticism for lacklustre play at even strength, while Bennett did quite excellently for his role on the team.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Holy hell this again.

Dude, Bennett drove play at 5v5 and generated points. Putting up 8 points in 10 games while playing 3rd line minutes is impressive as hell.

Monahan did not drive play at 5v5 play. Putting up 8 points in 10 games is still impressive though. If he could figure out a way to be a better 5v5 player, it would be great for this team - just like if Bennett can drive play as a 3rd line centre with some solid wingers. It takes all sorts of players to win a cup, and Monahan and Gaudreau have drawn fair criticism for lacklustre play at even strength, while Bennett did quite excellently for his role on the team.

I never once suggested Bennett didn't exceed expectations, nor that Gaudreau and Monahan weren't disappointing. But Bennett's play is also being made out to be more than it is, that line was ####ing terrible defensively, much of that on Bennett and his numerous giveaways.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by dino7c

His NTC kicks in after next season whenever that is...why would there be pressure to make a bad deal?

What PPG player making under 7M has ever been traded? Value is high its not a homer take.

I’m sure CGY management wants to go into next season with same group of producers that fizzled in playoffs 2 straight years.

As well, if they know JG is a flight risk, they may not want to chance losing him for nothing in 2 seasons. The NTC kicking in does create this window.

Jeff Skinner was a 40 goal scorer making under 7m.
Phil Kessel was dealt last year after having 82 points, his contract was under 7m due to retention.

Is JG better then 2 time Stanley Cup Assassin Phil Kessel? He may have been Conn Smythe winner the 1st time.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

All goalies do. It usually comes down to how much you watch them.

Markstrom has gotten steadily better and more consistent over the past few years, and was elite this year. And I didn't see him giving up many weak goals - certainly a lot less often than Talbot.

I would argue that elite goalies are the most consistent ones.



Granted that I haven't watched Markstrom lately but what I've read is that he still gives up more weak ones than you would like. I know that when he's hot he can be really good but those weak ones are killers. That said I wouldn't mind signing him if it's something reasonable, like around 5 million for four years or so.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Saqe

but what I've read is that he still gives up more weak ones than you would like.

The hell? Where did you read that? It's so far from accurate.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The hell? Where did you read that? It's so far from accurate.

On HFCanucks. Maybe not this year but certainly in the past.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Poster

I’m sure CGY management wants to go into next season with same group of producers that fizzled in playoffs 2 straight years.

As well, if they know JG is a flight risk, they may not want to chance losing him for nothing in 2 seasons. The NTC kicking in does create this window.

Jeff Skinner was a 40 goal scorer making under 7m.
Phil Kessel was dealt last year after having 82 points, his contract was under 7m due to retention.

Is JG better then 2 time Stanley Cup Assassin Phil Kessel? He may have been Conn Smythe winner the 1st time.

lol, Kessel is a perfect example "not a winner" goes to a stacked team and wins...Gaudreau is more valuable than Kessel especially if you are considering ages

If the Flames get less for Gaudreau than what the Pens got for Kessel I will buy you a beer

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

To be fair, Artemi Panarin was traded for Brandon Saad.

In one of the worst trades in NHL history so lets not do that

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The hell? Where did you read that? It's so far from accurate.

These people give Markstrom no respect, imagine me having to defend a Canucks player on CP! Guy was lights out...if he played in the east he would have won the Vezina not some clown that leaned on the crossbar all night for a stacked team

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol, Kessel is a perfect example "not a winner" goes to a stacked team and wins...Gaudreau is more valuable than Kessel especially if you are considering ages

If the Flames get less for Gaudreau than what the Pens got for Kessel I will buy you a beer

That's a pretty unfair comment given how well Kessel played for the "stacked team." He could have won the Conn Smythe and it wouldn't have been controversial. Blaming him for not winning the Cup with Toronto?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

That's a pretty unfair comment given how well Kessel played for the "stacked team." He could have won the Conn Smythe and it wouldn't have been controversial. Blaming him for not winning the Cup with Toronto?

You missed my point...that is what people said about Kessel back then like they say about Gaudreau now. "not a winner, doesn't train or take is seriously, can't get it done in the playoffs" I am saying Kessel was indeed a great player when he didn't have to be "the guy" Blaming all Calgary's playoff troubles on Gaudreau is similar to when people blamed Phil in Toronto.

1000% Gaudreau has more value now than Kessel did last summer though...I have a beer on the line

[Crown Royal]

Speaking of Kessel, I wonder if Arizona wiuld eat some of his salary to move him. With just 2 years left on his deal it might not be a bad play for someone to add him.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Kessel didn't score less than 30 goals (pro-rated for lockout season) until his final season with the Leafs.

He was a point-per-game player in the playoffs before going to the Penguins.

He got ragged on hard by the Toronto media, and maybe his priority are a bit different than others and it doesn't help that he's a goofy looking dude, who looks chubby (speculated to be because of the meds for his cancer...), but showed up to the Leafs camp as one of the fittest.

Maybe on internet message boards thanks to memes and generally loving to hate on Toronto (with great reasons). But in the actual hockey world, I don't think there was that huge of concern that he wasn't a winner.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Kessel didn't score less than 30 goals (pro-rated for lockout season) until his final season with the Leafs.

He was a point-per-game player in the playoffs before going to the Penguins.

He got ragged on hard by the Toronto media, and maybe his priority are a bit different than others and it doesn't help that he's a goofy looking dude, who looks chubby (speculated to be because of the meds for his cancer...), but showed up to the Leafs camp as one of the fittest.

Maybe on internet message boards thanks to memes and generally loving to hate on Toronto (with great reasons). But in the actual hockey world, I don't think there was that huge of concern that he wasn't a winner.

That is the whole point...Gaudreau is getting slammed by fans/media in Calgary like Phil was in TO. He had 99 points last year the hockey world thinks he is a great player...most would likely think he doesn't have enough help in Calgary and would be happy to have him in their lineup

God I'm not saying Phil is bad lol

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ so let me catch up here with these last few posts

Kessel is a complementary player that can’t singlehanded save Toronto but can win with Crosby and Malkin. And Gaudreau has exactly which expectations again, informed by context?