2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I prefer signing a goalie to a long term deal in free agency over trading a 1st for 2 years of another goalie.

Career wise Kuemper has better numbers but I really do not want to give up a 1st to get him especially when Markstrom could potentially be had if the team is willing to shell out the money.

Risks on both sides but being prospect and asset poor I would rather go the free agent route.

I am definitely in support of getting an upgrade in net from the Talbot-Rittich tandem

Numbers show Kuemper as elite, as does the eye test - so that's the big difference. How committed is this team to winning?

To me, you have to become something worth maintaining before worrying about maintaining it - a top end goaltender for 2-5 years is a huge piece if this team wants to win a cup in that time frame. That's why if we do deal a 1st for Kuemper, I'll be on board.

I like our championship chances with Kuemper in net more than I do with Markstrom.

Trading 1st round picks is a risky business - and overspending in trades while doing so is destructive (the Hamonic trade). Firing off a bottom half 1st round pick for an elite goalie though? I do that - especially if I'm viewing Kuemper as 2 years on a sweet value contract plus at least 2 more on an extension when the time comes.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

His career save percentage is 91.1%. This is mediocre at best.
Not only is that not "top 5", it's not even enough for a starter.

Sure, he just had a pretty good season, but he's also getting older.
He has only once been better than 91.5%.

Cam Talbot has been above 91.5% five times.

I think you have to look at his progression, rather than his career, and the circumstances for the years that drag his average down. That said, yeah, he’s no spring chicken.

I do like that size though.

[bax]

Markstrom really doesn't interest me all that much. Average goalie who had a great year. It would need to be a very reasonable contract.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I prefer signing a goalie to a long term deal in free agency over trading a 1st for 2 years of another goalie.

Career wise Kuemper has better numbers but I really do not want to give up a 1st to get him especially when Markstrom could potentially be had if the team is willing to shell out the money.

Risks on both sides but being prospect and asset poor I would rather go the free agent route.

I am definitely in support of getting an upgrade in net from the Talbot-Rittich tandem

This is the same thing posters didn't understand about the jake allen trade:

Contract term can be just as valuable as contract AAV.

Trading for a guy with 2 years left vs competing with other teams offering contract term you don't want to offer can leave you without a goalie at the end of the day.

It makes all the sense in the world why Kuemper is THE target for the flames in the same way Brian Elliott was THE target for the flames when Tre traded for him: the combo of term and AAV is the best solution available to the flames right now and it's often worth it to pay the price for the situation you want vs going to the open market and having to pay a price above what you budgeted to pay.

The difference between kuemper and markstrom could be the difference between a legit top 4 defender and a bottom pairing defender playing out of position.

[dino7c]

You guys obviously haven't watched much of Vancouver/Markstrom in the last few years

Vancouver gives up so many chances and shots you can't just look at numbers...the guy is ridiculous

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by chummer

If I'm Vancouver I let Markstrom walk, Demko sure likes like a capable number 1. Huge cap savings, maybe sign Talbot as a capable backup. They also wouldn't have to worry who to protect next year in the expansion draft.

Yes, yes, Vancouver... listen to chummer

[Roof-Daddy]

Markstrom's save percentage over the last 5 seasons has been 0.914, That ranks him 25th out of goalies with 100 or more games played, and that was while playing for the team with the 28th best points percentage in the entire league over those same 5 seasons.

So not spectacular, but he was on a bottom feeding, rebuilding team the whole time.

Over the same time frame Cam Talbot had a 0.912 save %

Other goalies with roughly a 0.915 to 0.913 save % in the last 5 seasons? Murray, Price, Holtby, Allen, Varlamov, Rinne, Fleury, Greiss.

The top 5 over the last 5 seasons:

1. Raanta (0.923)
2. Bishop (0.922) <-Good thing we dodged that bullet eh?
3. Kuemper (0.921)
4. Lehner (0.920)
5. Grubauer (0.920)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Poe969

If it means not trading their first for an ok goalie, sign any UFA available.

Signing Markstrom and keeping the first round pick is way more appealing than trading the first for 2 years of Kempner.

Markstrom is more appealing than Kuemper, period.

And I really like Kuemper.

But if we could sign Markstrom, and thus not have to give up any assets? Hell, yes!

[Harry Lime]

What I'm getting out of this conversation is that the fan base has 0% faith in the organization to produce goaltenders. Rittich came to the team pretty close to fully formed. Ideally what you want to happen is that you have a starter, and a homegrown product becomes the backup, eventually the 1B, then the 1A. You trade the 1B and rinse and repeat.

Does anyone believe that with Gilles, Parsons, Zags, Schnieder, McDonald and Wolf in the system, that any one of them are going to be able to follow any kind of model into the NHL?

If goalies come into the system highly touted, only to die on the vine, the system in Calgary is irrevocably broken.

Picking up Kuemper or Markstrom is likely with the intention of signing them well into their 30s. To me that seems like creating a problem for yourself down the line. I understand that the Flames may have painted themselves into this corner.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Kyle Clifford heading time free agency.

If we somehow end up with some spare cap space and Tree feels the need to spend it on a 4th line player, he’d be the one I’d want.

He'd be essentially just replacing Rinaldo. Unless it was on league minimum for 1 year I wouldn't take it, as cap dollars are now more crucial than ever before with the slashed payrolls and internal caps being put into place.

I feel like that is what the 4th liners and role players are going to have to settle for this UFA period if they even get offers at all - would you rather a league minimum vet or a drafted pick on his ELC?

If Brad's flexing with cap space I would hope it would be on a big fish.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This is the same thing posters didn't understand about the jake allen trade:

Contract term can be just as valuable as contract AAV.

Trading for a guy with 2 years left vs competing with other teams offering contract term you don't want to offer can leave you without a goalie at the end of the day.

It makes all the sense in the world why Kuemper is THE target for the flames in the same way Brian Elliott was THE target for the flames when Tre traded for him: the combo of term and AAV is the best solution available to the flames right now and it's often worth it to pay the price for the situation you want vs going to the open market and having to pay a price above what you budgeted to pay.

The difference between kuemper and markstrom could be the difference between a legit top 4 defender and a bottom pairing defender playing out of position.

Brian Elliott wasn’t the guy. The Flames were extremely deep on a Bishop trade and when that fell through Elliott was the backup plan.

Kuemper had a nice little run in LA and Arizona but I don’t value him as a top 5 goalie (nor do I Markstrom) the big difference is the added 1-1.5M per season for Markstrom and the additional 3-4 years on the deal

I would hate to give up a 1st for a goalie that is only going to be here 2 years. Kuemper has 1 season where he has played the workload of a number 1 and he is 30. I worry about giving up 19th overall for him

[dino7c]

Brian Elliott had great stats...with goalies you have to look at the team... Markstrom took out the Blues basically by himself. Eventually he got hurt stopping 60 shots a game

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

What I'm getting out of this conversation is that the fan base has 0% faith in the organization to produce goaltenders. Rittich came to the team pretty close to fully formed. Ideally what you want to happen is that you have a starter, and a homegrown product becomes the backup, eventually the 1B, then the 1A. You trade the 1B and rinse and repeat.

Does anyone believe that with Gilles, Parsons, Zags, Schnieder, McDonald and Wolf in the system, that any one of them are going to be able to follow any kind of model into the NHL?

If goalies come into the system highly touted, only to die on the vine, the system in Calgary is irrevocably broken.

Picking up Kuemper or Markstrom is likely with the intention of signing them well into their 30s. To me that seems like creating a problem for yourself down the line. I understand that the Flames may have painted themselves into this corner.

Id put money on Zagidulin and Wolf being NHLers. I think both have the stuff.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, yes, Vancouver... listen to chummer

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Brian Elliott had great stats...with goalies you have to look at the team... Markstrom took out the Blues basically by himself. Eventually he got hurt stopping 60 shots a game

While true, overpaying for a playoff performance has gotten this team into trouble before. You have to walk the line carefully. That Elliott trade, followed by the Brouwer and then the Neal signings really give me concern over our pro scouts. Just poor work.

I put Kuemper right at the top of the list. His performance in recent years (and it tracks back a while) is top tier. He's signed for two more years at a solid 4.5M, which I think is fantastic value.

If Kuemper goes elsewhere, I'd be overjoyed to get Markstrom. I really want Kuemper, so he's definitely my top choice (yes, even with paying a 1st), but so long as we end up with Kuemper or Markstrom I'll be pretty happy.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

He'd be essentially just replacing Rinaldo. Unless it was on league minimum for 1 year I wouldn't take it, as cap dollars are now more crucial than ever before with the slashed payrolls and internal caps being put into place.

I feel like that is what the 4th liners and role players are going to have to settle for this UFA period if they even get offers at all - would you rather a league minimum vet or a drafted pick on his ELC?

If Brad's flexing with cap space I would hope it would be on a big fish.

Clifford is a much better player than Rinaldo, but I agree with you about over spending on the 4th line. Rinaldo is a heat seeking missle, but he can't win puck battles and can't grind in the corners so he really isn't that effective a player on the 4th line.

If you can get Clifford for under $1.5 million, yes do it, but I doubt he comes that cheap. Same thing with Matt Martin.

I think the 4th line needs to get a lot bigger yet maintaining quickness and speed. I think guys like Stefan Noesen, Zemgus Girgensens are options and hopefully don't cost too much. Flames will probably have to wait till the season starts to fill out that 4th line with value deals.

Hathaway's deal last year was just perfect for a 4th line guy, too bad, Tre couldn't keep him. Should have dumped Frolik last Summer and kept Hathaway.

Gawdin is not overly big, but they should pencil him in for the 4th line and let him play and develop in the NHL next year.

[Flash Walken]

Flames will sign at least one PTO 4th liner as a goon.

[868904]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Markstrom just had the best season of his career (by far) and ranked:

11th in GSAA (11.45)
14th in GSAA/60 (0.27)
14th in SV% (.918)
8th in HDSV% (.838)
28th in Average Goal Distance (21.33)

Again, this was by far the best season of his career. Doesn't even sniff the top 5

You really can't look at Markstrom's numbers to evaluate him.

Prior to this year, the Canucks were terribad. Even with all that young talent this year, they were still bleeding high danger chances in the playoffs.

Markstrom has been elite for a few years now, my only concern is can he maintain it away from the goalie whisperer.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think you have to look at his progression, rather than his career, and the circumstances for the years that drag his average down. That said, yeah, he’s no spring chicken.

I do like that size though.

He has progressed, and does look solid in recent years.
I just think the lack of good sustained numbers and his age make a larger contract extremely risky.

Also, why would the Flames trade away Gaudreau for youth, but then go all-in on an older goalie?

The Flames have to at least be logically consistent.

Option one: Trade away Gaudreau for youth, stop spending assets for temporary or old pieces. Probably just keep Talbot and Rittich for a year, develop Wolf and Zagidulin, maybe wait for the expansion draft.

Option two: Keep Gaudreau, spend assets/cap acquiring a proven goalie and or free agents.

Just please don't do anything between. It just doesn't make sense. Hall could work under both options since he wouldn't require assets to acquire and he's fairly young.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Markstrom just had the best season of his career (by far) and ranked:

11th in GSAA (11.45)
14th in GSAA/60 (0.27)
14th in SV% (.918)
8th in HDSV% (.838)
28th in Average Goal Distance (21.33)

Again, this was by far the best season of his career. Doesn't even sniff the top 5

Stats should support an argument, not be the argument.

Vancouver was terrible defensively this year, and Markstrom carried them on his back many, many times. They would not have made the playoffs without him.