2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Whats the offer sheet for Murray that the pens would turn down? 4m a year? 5?

I just don’t see a need for him on the roster anymore. They can move on and use the cap elsewhere.

[dissentowner]

I might be the only one but I would just rather bring Talbot back than give up assets to get either of those two goalies. I thought he was excellent in the playoffs and he just costs salary.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Outside of cost to acquire, I don’t see why anyone would want Murray over Kuemper.

Lower acquisition cost. Buy low vs. Buy high scenario. Also Kuemper doesn't have nearly the same pedigree, Murray has actually showed he can win. Age difference.

I'm also not sold on Kuemper, I think he's a product of a defensive system much like Raanta. He's not bad but no interest at all with the rumoured cost.

[Jiri Hrdina]

If you go after a guy like Murray you potentially solve your starter problem for at least 4-5 years. But if he doesn't rebound you are back to square 1.
A veteran guy may have more certainty - but then you are only solving for maybe 2 years.

So that's the tension point.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I might be the only one but I would just rather bring Talbot back than give up assets to get either of those two goalies. I thought he was excellent in the playoffs and he just costs salary.

I like this option too, I guess in my mind I just see him exploring free agency for a team that doesn’t have a guy that management clearly wants starting also on the roster.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Neither sounds particularly appealing to me at the moment, especially considering cost.


Murray has won 2 cups and has looked fantastic... but for two consecutive seasons he has looked - at best - pedestrian. Rumours that he just isn't the same after his injury scare me.


Kuemper looks like the real deal, but so do a lot of goalies over the years for a short period of time. Is he the real deal, or just another Elliott? Or worse, another Jim Carey. I don't know.


I am pretty negative on goalies right now, however. Ask me about any goaltender, and I seem only able to see the downside. Heck, I will find something negative about Price and fixate on it for weeks even if the Habs retain 50% and it only cost the Flames future considerations. That's where I am at when it comes to goalies at the moment.

Elliot was never a bad goalie- he was just never an undisputed starter. His numbers were inflated in St. Louis by playing behind such a great defensive team. He is a perfectly average NHL goalie.

I don't think it's fair to compare Kuemper to him. Kuemper has been putting up unreal numbers in Arizona and LA in front of some pretty pedestrian teams. He had the 4th most goals saved above average this year despite only playing 29 games.

I don't think it's too surprising to see Khudobin have so much success in these playoffs when Bishop went down because he actually had the 3rd most goals saved above average this season.

[dammage79]

Pens are in a bind. Badly. 6.9m in cap to sign Jarry and round out their roster.

Flames SHOULD be looking at getting Murray on the cheap by taking Bjustad for a year. I thought that was the rumor before anyways. Send Ritter over along with a 3rd in 21 and call it a day.

Also, I'm looking at Justin Schultz signing in Calgary too. Seems like the cheaper RHD option out there.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Murray is definitely a target, but not for a 1st. Unless its conditional (can they still add conditions?) And 2021.

Unless they deal Gaudreau for a high pick, then yeah I suppose 19 could go. But I still don't like it.

I don’t understand how the goalie market is going to return anything significant via trade. Look who’s available for nothing but money.

-Markstrom
-Holtby
-Lehner
-Crawford
-Talbot
-Greiss
-Khudobin
-Elliott

Via trade:

-Fleury
-Murray
-Andersen

For those scoring at home, there are 8 Stanley Cups worth of goalie on that list, including the all-time leader in playoff save percentage, who happens to be a mere 30 years old.

There’s absolutely zero excuse for Brad not to walk away from this off season with a goalie who can start 50-60 games for the next 5 years.

[ComixZone]

If Markstrom does hit free agency, he’s the answer. Especially if all these rumours of 5 year deals for Lehner are true. Markstrom until he’s 35 is a contract I’m on board with.

If Markstrom is not going to make it to free agency, as much as I’ve slammed him, Matt Murray is probably the most appealing acquisition simply because of age. If he rebounds he’s a a high end goalie and we’ll have him for a long time.

[dammage79]

Also, what are the Pens doing with McCann? They going to re sign him? Because he can come over too. Wait no, he was a little pithy about being drafted to Vancouver. Maybe he doesn't like Canada.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If you go after a guy like Murray you potentially solve your starter problem for at least 4-5 years. But if he doesn't rebound you are back to square 1.
A veteran guy may have more certainty - but then you are only solving for maybe 2 years.

So that's the tension point.

If you acquire Murray and he doesn't rebound, you're actually back to square minus 1, because you've given assets up to get him.

As for the cost to acquire, you can offer sheet him up to $4,350,000 AAV for a maximum of 5 years and all it would cost is a 2021 2nd round pick.

If the Penguins want more than that they can pound sand as far as I'm concerned.

One hitch though is would he sign that offer sheet? I've read that he's rumored to want about $30,000,000 total on his next deal. So roughly 6 years x $5,000,000.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Also, what are the Pens doing with McCann? They going to re sign him? Because he can come over too. Wait no, he was a little pithy about being drafted to Vancouver. Maybe he doesn't like Canada.

Or it was the fact that it was Vancouver. McCann is Canadian.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Also, what are the Pens doing with McCann? They going to re sign him? Because he can come over too. Wait no, he was a little pithy about being drafted to Vancouver. Maybe he doesn't like Canada.

.


I read somewhere - maybe Sportsnet - the Pens are happy to trade McCann

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If you acquire Murray and he doesn't rebound, you're actually back to square minus 1, because you've given assets up to get him.

As for the cost to acquire, you can offer sheet him up to $4,350,000 AAV for a maximum of 5 years and all it would cost is a 2021 2nd round pick.

If the Penguins want more than that they can pound sand as far as I'm concerned.

One hitch though is would he sign that offer sheet? I've read that he's rumored to want about $30,000,000 total on his next deal. So roughly 6 years x $5,000,000.

Not a huge gap wage wise. I think he'd sign that offer sheet in Covid times.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Ped

.


I read somewhere - maybe Sportsnet - the Pens are happy to trade McCann

To CGY:
McCann
Bjugstad
Murray

To Pitt:
Kylington Ritter 2021 3rd.

Ya? Nah?

[bax]

Kuemper- potentially elite option for 3-5 years. High cost of acquisition, but his numbers and analytics show he is the real deal.

Murray - potentially elite option for 5-7 years if the Flames are confident they can "fix" his game and that his injury history isn't going to hurt him moving forward. Probably cheaper to acquire than Kuemper and younger too.

Talbot- more of the same, decent goalie but getting older and more of a stop gap solution for a year or two.

Don't love the idea of Markstrom at all. Too expensive, too much term and not as much upside as Kuemper or Murray in my opinion.

Holtby would be a disaster and I think Lehner is off the board.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Askarov is the most hyped goalie prospect since Carey Price

I think Vasilevskiy was just as hyped. He was very good at the WJC.

He went... 19th overall too. I was against it but if Askarov is there I think we would be foolish not to take a swing.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If you acquire Murray and he doesn't rebound, you're actually back to square minus 1, because you've given assets up to get him.

As for the cost to acquire, you can offer sheet him up to $4,350,000 AAV for a maximum of 5 years and all it would cost is a 2021 2nd round pick.

If the Penguins want more than that they can pound sand as far as I'm concerned.

One hitch though is would he sign that offer sheet? I've read that he's rumored to want about $30,000,000 total on his next deal. So roughly 6 years x $5,000,000.

Matt Murray is a career 2.67/.917 goalie. That puts him in the same category as every famous goalie you can think of.

Price, Fleury, Lundqvist, Roy, Kipper, Brodeur, Rinne, Quick, Holtby, Bobrovsky, Nabokov, and so on.

Murray’s the guy, if we can get him. And we have to get a goalie. Without one, everything else is window dressing.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Replying to Noopers - can't quote him for some reason.

How does a 30 year old goalie who has only recently put up a season and a half of starter quality game, appear to be the “real deal”.

He’s good, but Murray is the obvious choice between the two for a handful of reasons.

I think you read my post wrong, or perhaps didn't quite understand the phrase "appears to be the real deal" and then qualified with "Elliott" and "Jim Carey".


To be clear, I have neither one of these goalies ranked ahead of the other. I do not state that one is the right answer, and the other is the wrong. In fact, I thought I was quite clear - NEITHER one of them seem like the right answer, though I can and do see the argument for each as being a decent argument in favour of acquiring them.


I, myself, feel that both of these goalies bring HUGE question marks, and I have zero confidence that either of these two are definitively the answer for Calgary. Add to that the perceived acquisition cost of either of them, and it does worry me considerably that Calgary is going to spend more assets on stop-gaps that won't really improve the team - just like Elliott, and just like Smith. I won't argue with anyone that these goalies are indeed worth the price - but at this junction, all I see with goalies right now are question marks.

[bax]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Matt Murray is a career 2.67/.917 goalie. That puts him in the same category as every famous goalie you can think of.

Price, Fleury, Lundqvist, Roy, Kipper, Brodeur, Rinne, Quick, Holtby, Bobrovsky, Nabokov, and so on.

Murray’s the guy, if we can get him. And we have to get a goalie. Without one, everything else is window dressing.

There's so much more to evaluate on goalies though than just looking at their career stats.

Why did Murray have a -11.6 goals saved above average this year? Why did he lose the net? Why is a 25 year old goalie with 2 cups to his name on the block in the first place? Why did his save percentage drop to below .900 this year on a really strong team? Does he have lingering issues from his long list of injuries? What kind of contract does he want?

To be clear, I'm not necessarily against acquiring Murray depending on the price, but if you are making a long term commitment to him you better be sure you know why his game fell off so much and what you are going to need to do to get it back on track.

Kuemper on the other hand, while older has been pumping out fairly elite numbers since 2017. He is the top choice in my eyes and I would try to get creative and acquire him without using the 2020 1st round pick.