2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can someone make my custom user title 'Put Treliving On Notice'?

No.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He might be one, or he might not.

I always find this weird, people think just because you draft a centre in the top 3 or top 5, that you have your #1 center. That’s (unfortunately) not how it works. In the 10 years including 2016 draft and prior (using that cutoff to give players a few years to reach a high level of play), 8 of the centres drafted in the top 5 did not become undisputed #1 centres (whether that means they topped out as good #2s, third liners, switched to wing, or didn’t stick on a team at all).

Byfield might become a #1 center, but it’s nowhere close to definite.

Same goes for the people want to trade for Cozens. If we’re lucky, he becomes as good as Monahan. If we hit the absolute jackpot, he’s better. But in all likelihood he does not reach either of those levels. Potential is not a guarantee. We should have learned that with surefire #1 center Sam Bennett.

You're not wrong but Byfield is a 99th percentile prospect over the last ten years. Meaning he has been better at this point in his career than 99% of the centres drafted over that time frame. And he's done it while being one of the youngest players in his draft class.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

You're not wrong but Byfield is a 99th percentile prospect over the last ten years. Meaning he has been better at this point in his career than 99% of the centres drafted over that time frame. And he's done it while being one of the youngest players in his draft class.

As I've pointed out, Byfield has a better ppg than anyone in the last decade except McDavid, Lafrenniere, and Rossi in Major Junior. (I may have forgotten a name) His PPG is better than MacKinnon's, who had more talent to work with,and as is pointed out above, he's one of the youngest in his draft class. True, you never know how a prospect will turn out, but Byfield is as blue-chip as anyone.

[Ped]

[QUOTE=Roof-Daddy;7566101]I know everybody figures I'm a nut bar, but I still believe that if the Flyers trade for Gaudreau and send us a C back, the most likely guy is Couturier. Especially if they have a pretty good idea that Patrick is going to be fine long term.

Giroux can play C and has a full NMC
Hayes is a solid C and also has a NMC
Frost I imagine they are very high on, plus he's expansion exempt and on his ELC
/QUOTE]


If any team bet on Patrick being fine and traded an elite 2-way center because of that, that GM should be fired immediately. Patrick might be fine one day, but that day obviously isn't now, since he hasn't played, and betting on it would be foolish.


As for Giroux being a center, he had been, but his last season as a C were very disappointing, which was why he was moved back to the wing.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Ped

If any team bet on Patrick being fine and traded an elite 2-way center because of that, that GM should be fired immediately. Patrick might be fine one day, but that day obviously isn't now, since he hasn't played, and betting on it would be foolish.


As for Giroux being a center, he had been, but his last season as a C were very disappointing, which was why he was moved back to the wing.

Nobody would know better than they would about Patrick, and that was just one of the reasons I listed, not the only reason I listed.

[Sandman]

Isn't Patrick's symptoms a result of multiple concussions? I thought that was the problem with him going in to the draft.
Either way, I'm in the camp that believes he should be a sweetener in a trade, not a centerpiece.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Isn't Patrick's symptoms a result of multiple concussions? I thought that was the problem with him going in to the draft.
Either way, I'm in the camp that believes he should be a sweetener in a trade, not a centerpiece.

I believe his is worse in that it’s an inner ear problem which are harder to treat iirc.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I know everybody figures I'm a nut bar, but I still believe that if the Flyers trade for Gaudreau and send us a C back, the most likely guy is Couturier. Especially if they have a pretty good idea that Patrick is going to be fine long term.

Giroux can play C and has a full NMC
Hayes is a solid C and also has a NMC
Frost I imagine they are very high on, plus he's expansion exempt and on his ELC

Plus, if they trade for Gaudreau, it's going to be with a clear goal to extend him long term and they won't want to have to deal with Johnny, Couturier and Giroux all going UFA in the same off season. Giroux should be easy enough on some sort of legacy extension in his declining years to stay with the Flyers, but Johnny and Couturier will both be looking for massive long term extensions.

You do well to qualify your post as you do. Ultimately, I don't think Philly has any impetus to act before the expansion draft, they have another year of info on both Patrick and Frost, and they do/don't agree to an extension with Couturier at the first opportunity.

There are far easier good value moves they can make like trading Laughton. Looking again at their depth chart, I can't fathom why they would throw Myers into any deal, as he is the only RD the Flyers have beyond the upcoming season.

Laughton+Ghost for Risto + (money comes off the books when they need it for Couturier, etc.)

better yet - intra-divisional blockbuster:

Laughton+Ghost for Lundqvist (the goalie) + RD

If it's Fox, Philly probably has to add. If it's Deangelo, NYR has to retain some Hank money and add. But on paper it makes some sense for both sides (and doesn't seem totally inconceivable for Hank to agree to).

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Nobody would know better than they would about Patrick, and that was just one of the reasons I listed, not the only reason I listed.

Yeah I know. Didn't mean to misrepresent. But this reason is the most important why they can't make that call.


Until Patrick proves that he is fine long-term (which hasn't happened yet), and proves that he is a legitimate top 6 player (which hasn't happened yet), it would be quite stupid to trade a proven guy like Couturier and expect him to step up. Not to say it couldn't happen, because GMs do stupid things like that far more often than they should..

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I know everybody figures I'm a nut bar, but I still believe that if the Flyers trade for Gaudreau and send us a C back, the most likely guy is Couturier. Especially if they have a pretty good idea that Patrick is going to be fine long term.

Giroux can play C and has a full NMC
Hayes is a solid C and also has a NMC
Frost I imagine they are very high on, plus he's expansion exempt and on his ELC

Plus, if they trade for Gaudreau, it's going to be with a clear goal to extend him long term and they won't want to have to deal with Johnny, Couturier and Giroux all going UFA in the same off season. Giroux should be easy enough on some sort of legacy extension in his declining years to stay with the Flyers, but Johnny and Couturier will both be looking for massive long term extensions.

Eric D said it best after the Flames season in an article he had written about the Flames and their options with the core. In discussing a potential Gaudreau to Philadelphia trade, ‘...anyone floating Couturier is probably dreaming in technicolor’. I’ll agree with the HHOF journalist on this one. Couturier, along with Provorov and Hart, is among the least likely to be traded from Philadelphia. They move quite a few others before they move Couturier. It makes no sense given where they are right now.

Also, NMC’s doesn’t necessarily mean the player can’t be traded. It just gives the player some control of where they may go. If they Flyers go to, let’s say Kevin Hayes, and say ‘we want to move you’, he’s probably going to work something out with them. Most rationale people don’t want to be in situations where they are not wanted. It will not end well.

Gaudreau being, essentially, from Philadelphia is a cute story and all, but I’ll take the No1 selke candidate C over the 150lbs timid winger......and it wouldn’t matter an iota if JG was born on centre ice of the spectrum. Now, I wouldn’t go so far as to say it would never happen, but if I’m Philadelphia, I’m asking for another significant asset. ie: Gaudreau and Backlund for Couturier and JVR.

[David Struch]

If the Flames are essentially replacing Johnny with Hall...

How about Gaudreau for

2020 1st round pick (PHI) + Cam York (2019 14th overall LD)

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by David Struch

If the Flames are essentially replacing Johnny with Hall...

How about Gaudreau for

2020 1st round pick (PHI) + Cam York (2019 14th overall LD)

Don’t think the Flames are going to sell a Taylor Hall on signing if the plan includes ‘rebuild’ type trades.

If there’s a Gaudreau to Philadelphia trade to be had, I would target Konecny.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by David Struch

If the Flames are essentially replacing Johnny with Hall...

How about Gaudreau for

2020 1st round pick (PHI) + Cam York (2019 14th overall LD)

How about we stop undervaluing our players. Terrible.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I believe his is worse in that it’s an inner ear problem which are harder to treat iirc.

It’s a migraine issue that is unrelated to concussions. Sounds like there’s a hereditary component to it.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Also, NMC’s doesn’t necessarily mean the player can’t be traded. It just gives the player some control of where they may go. If they Flyers go to, let’s say Kevin Hayes, and say ‘we want to move you’, he’s probably going to work something out with them. Most rationale people don’t want to be in situations where they are not wanted. It will not end well.

This is true to an extent, but there can be a significant reputational cost to any organization that pursues this path (especially after year 1 of 7 as would be the case with Hayes). Everyone knows that it's a business, but the best organizations still extract value by building trust and loyalty.

Especially until the pandemic is resolved, anyone with a full NTC/NMC will tell that GM where to shove their request.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

This is true to an extent, but there can be a significant reputational cost to any organization that pursues this path (especially after year 1 of 7 as would be the case with Hayes). Everyone knows that it's a business, but the best organizations still extract value by building trust and loyalty.

Especially until the pandemic is resolved, anyone with a full NTC/NMC will tell that GM where to shove their request.

Yeah, I agree. It would be pretty ham fisted for the Flyers to look to move Hayes. I also agree that sort of move would be notable among players and agents and not a good look for the organization. I disagree though with your point on the pandemic as it relates to NTC/NMC’s. every situation is different. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see a player with a NTC/NMC moved this offseason.

Still the premise stands, I don’t see any plausible scenario where the Flyers move Couturier in a trade for Johnny Gaudreau without some significant others involved. Even then it makes no sense. If you have one of the league’s best two way C’s in his prime, you don’t move him.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Eric D said it best after the Flames season in an article he had written about the Flames and their options with the core. In discussing a potential Gaudreau to Philadelphia trade, ‘...anyone floating Couturier is probably dreaming in technicolor’. I’ll agree with the HHOF journalist on this one. Couturier, along with Provorov and Hart, is among the least likely to be traded from Philadelphia. They move quite a few others before they move Couturier. It makes no sense given where they are right now.

If we are trading Gaudreau, we don't settle for a Plan B return in Konecny, the ask is Couturier.

Of the top 20 centers in the league (NHL.com), 17 were drafted by their current team. The other 3 were traded/UFA. These types of players rarely if ever, hit the market. If it is indeed Philly we are talking to, you target Couturier and add a 2nd or a prospect like Kylington, or both to get it done. I wouldn't even be that mad if Tre did Gaudreau + 2021 1st. There are certain players that you do overpay for and I think Couturier is one of them.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

If we are trading Gaudreau, we don't settle for a Plan B return in Konecny, the ask is Couturier.

Of the top 20 centers in the league (NHL.com), 17 were drafted by their current team. The other 3 were traded/UFA. These types of players rarely if ever, hit the market. If it is indeed Philly we are talking to, you target Couturier and add a 2nd or a prospect like Kylington, or both to get it done. I wouldn't even be that mad if Tre did Gaudreau + 2021 1st. There are certain players that you do overpay for and I think Couturier is one of them.

Not enough. The Flames can ask, but they’re not getting.

Were any of the three C’s you reference traded for a winger? Or a winger + magic beans? Does the GM who traded the C still have a job? If we’re banking on the Flyers hockey ops as being as short sighted as Mike O’Connell (Joe Thornton) or Peter Chiarelli (Tyler Seguin), I would say we are facing some pretty long odds.

Again, I’ll side with what Eric Duhatschek wrote ‘anyone floating Sean Couturier is probably dreaming in technicolor’.

[Harry Lime]

The Couturier thing came from a media source. I'm too lazy to hunt for it, but it was in the thread about 80 pages back. The gist of it was that there was a trade in place before the prior season that would have seen Johnny and Couturier as the main pieces. It wasn't Eklund.

For what it's worth, I don't see that happening, but if it did I wouldn't be floored either. Hayes, Laughton, Frost, Patrick is pretty deep, even if Patrick can't play.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Lets not forget Philly got shut out and had something like 17 shots in game 7 vs the Isles.
They may be going through similar reactions right now and questioning why their top players didn't show up.

Could be ideal timing to strike a deal with them.