2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Niemo

They need a Center behind Scheifele most, then D 2nd.


I feel like Monahan would be great for them. He would be great for us as well behind Lindholm, but then you would be wasting one of Backlund or Bennett. We owe it to Bennett to give him his own consistent line at C with Lucic and Dube. He's not asking much in terms of linemates, just consistent ones and an opportunity to succeed.


So it comes down to Backlund or Monahan....Monahan would return a lot more in a trade than Backlund.

Laine isn't getting traded, Frank is wanting clickbait.

[Jaydee]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

If Eichel is available you offer the moon, would Monahan, Mangiapane and Valimaki get it done?

Johnny + Monny for Eichel. Sign Hall and we are better off on both positions

[powderjunkie]

The recipe for contention has always been pretty simple IMO:

Centre
Centre
Defenceman
Goalie

Before you can even start to consider yourself a legitimate contender, you need at least 2.5 of these to be 'elite' (yes, the classic undefinable semantic...I won't bother defining it, I think you just sort of 'know' - it's pretty black and white with a single shade of medium grey (hence the half point - Sharp, J Carter, B Schenn, Monahan level).

Of course you need a lot more ingredients like top wingers, forward/defensive depth, size/grit/tenacity, coaching, etc., but unless you're starting with enough good cuts of meat as listed above, you're just making a delicious ratatouille.

[David Struch]

Usually it's a dozen top guys that teams really rely on the most,

8 forwards
3 defensemen
1 goalie

[868904]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Patrick and Frost doesn't feel like enough for a player of Gaudreau's calibre. I feel like they'd need to add a draft pick or two depending on how high the picks were.

Nolan Patrick cannot be a centrepiece or even the second best piece in a Gaudreau trade. The guy didn’t play last year due to head issues, that is the riskiest health issue to have.

Patrick should be a sweetener to get a deal done not a core piece.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by 868904

Nolan Patrick cannot be a centrepiece or even the second best piece in a Gaudreau trade. The guy didn’t play last year due to head issues, that is the riskiest health issue to have.

Patrick should be a sweetener to get a deal done not a core piece.

That's just us speculating though, right? We don't know the actual details behind Patrick's head issues. From what has been spoken of publicly it is unrelated to concussions, and they've just been working on figuring out the best way to manage some sort of migraine syndrome that he has a family history of.

He is expected to be back on the ice for the 2020/2021 season.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Player 1 in 2019/2020:
CF%: 49.65....

Don't give a #### about analytics, never will, so this is irrelevant to me.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't disagree with a lot - but I don't like that Gaudreau trade. Voracek is an absolute non-starter for me - Myers and Frost aren't at the level that it would make me take on that deal.

Probable top six center, currently a top four defenseman, and a top 10 player at his position, and that's not enough? In our system, Frost would be our top prospect, Myers would be our number three or four defenseman, and Voracek would be our top RW. And we only give up one player of consequence. That is a trade you do all the time.

Monahan is really struggling on executing when it comes to becoming a 200 foot player. He's saying all the right things, but his performance on ice might just be telling us that he can't do it. If we do come back with Gaudreau and Monahan here, I think a big experiment should be splitting them up for extended periods to see what happens to their games. I think that may go poorly for Monahan, but it also may give him the opportunity to get more touches while getting him involved in more of the play giving him the opportunity to be more than just a finisher for whatever magic Johnny can cook up.

And I disagree. Having Gaudreau on your wing a double edged sword. He's creative, but he's a giveaway machine and a player you have to cover up for. Monahan is grossly under rated in his two way game. He's also the best center we've had in almost a quarter century. You accept some warts, just like Oilers and Avs fans accept the warts with their star centers.

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Monahan + Ryan + Jankowski rights + 2nd

For

Domi + Danault + 16th

3 centres out two Centers in plus another mid 1st. Danault would be a really good add at Center, would instantly become our best face off guy and plays a complete 200 ft game; I think Gaudreau would benefit greatly playing with a center like this.

Gaudreau - Danault - Lindholm
Hall - Domi - Tkachuk
Bennett - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Dube - Phillips

That is just... no. Not just no, but hell no. Montreal would hump your leg for that deal.

[bax]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

That's just us speculating though, right? We don't know the actual details behind Patrick's head issues. From what has been spoken of publicly it is unrelated to concussions, and they've just been working on figuring out the best way to manage some sort of migraine syndrome that he has a family history of.

He is expected to be back on the ice for the 2020/2021 season.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

That's just us speculating though, right? We don't know the actual details behind Patrick's head issues. From what has been spoken of publicly it is unrelated to concussions, and they've just been working on figuring out the best way to manage some sort of migraine syndrome that he has a family history of.

He is expected to be back on the ice for the 2020/2021 season.

Regardless I think it’s fair to say any time a 20 year old misses a full season of hockey you need to be very concerned about long term health and lost development time.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Do people think we could get Frost, Patrick and Phillipe Myers for Gaudreau? I read Pronman's evaluation of Frost and Patrick, and I like the fact that both play centre. We might be able to get Patrick where we normally couldn't because of his migraine issues. Myers would help on the right side of the defence.

Patrick is damaged goods. Never get involved with someone with chronic migraines. You can't count on them. They could be fine one day, then out for a week the next. Hell, they can be good for one period, then out because something flared up a migraine.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

That's just us speculating though, right?

No, no speculation. Patrick didn't play a shift in seventeen months and it has been disclosed as migraines being the issue. I don't like guys with neurological issues. They are highly unpredictable and can put a guy on IR for the simplest of reasons. Nolan Patrick is a no go.

[1qqaaz]

I can't believe Nolan Patrick is turning 22 in a few weeks.
Seems like he was just drafted.

It's too bad for the Flyers, but they won the lottery anyways.
Gotta feel bad for Patrick. Hopefully he can find a way through it.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

Patrick is damaged goods. Never get involved with someone with chronic migraines. You can't count on them. They could be fine one day, then out for a week the next. Hell, they can be good for one period, then out because something flared up a migraine.



No, no speculation. Patrick didn't play a shift in seventeen months and it has been disclosed as migraines being the issue. I don't like guys with neurological issues. They are highly unpredictable and can put a guy on IR for the simplest of reasons. Nolan Patrick is a no go.

We don't know the details behind his personal medical situation and what the treatment is currently looking like - so it is speculation. They may have found a system that works for him, and the Flyers seem to be ready to play him next year.

Originally Posted by New Era

Don't give a #### about analytics, never will, so this is irrelevant to me.

Well this seems like a well reasoned argument. "Don't give a !@#$ about information, never will, so this is irrelevant to me" I mean...okay.

Also, what lens are you viewing Voracek with that has you calling him a top ten RW? If you're just going on points, he isn't. He's 12th in actual scoring and 17th in points per game. He's also 31 and making 8.25M per until he's 35.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

We don't know the details behind his personal medical situation and what the treatment is currently looking like - so it is speculation. They may have found a system that works for him, and the Flyers seem to be ready to play him next year.

Good for the Flyers. They're ready to play him. Is Patrick ready to play? I'm sure the Canucks were ready to play Ferland too, but Ferland wasn't ready to play. Patrick hasn't played a shift for 17 months. He has a condition that is a day-to-day thing. The Flyers saying he is going to play come November is disingenuous. They can't determine that. Only Patrick and his neurologist can. And those two parties just finished saying he was not fit to play for over a full calendar year.

Well this seems like a well reasoned argument. "Don't give a !@#$ about information, never will, so this is irrelevant to me" I mean...okay.

It's not information to me. It's junk science. It's bad data pretending to be something it is not; consistent and valid. As a result they don't amount to a hill of beans. I mean, these amazing dreamed up stats were used to prove Ty Conklin was a better goaltender than Martin Brodeur. I have always been specious of these BS stats, because measuring players on shot outcomes is a bad way of measuring players efficacy who are forced to play under very different systems.

Also, what lens are you viewing Voracek with that has you calling him a top ten RW? If you're just going on points, he isn't. He's 12th in actual scoring and 17th in points per game. He's also 31 and making 8.25M per until he's 35.

I'm viewing him in the past three to five seasons. I mean, if you're just using this season, Nolan Patrick doesn't exist. I tend to look at longitudinal performance, and not fall in love with short stretches of poor or over performance.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Laine isn't getting traded, Frank is wanting clickbait.

Good, you can keep him. Any player who says they don't practice in the off season and clearly has an addiction to video games is a pass. Super talented kid and he might have the best wrister in the NHL but I don't see his game aging well and could see him start to regress pretty quickly at an early age. I think Chevy knows this too and I actually would not be surprised if he does try to move him while the value is there.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

Johnny + Monny for Eichel. Sign Hall and we are better off on both positions

No matter how many times you say it Hall isn't better than Gaudreau, trading Gaudreau and signing Hall for $8-9m will be the beginning of the end for Treliving.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by VilleN

After thinking about it for a while, I believe we have to go for it with this core. Get a better coach, add a player like Hall if you can. If a hockey trade that makes sense is available, go for it. But this is our window, like it or not.

Everything is so unpredictable. Dallas didn’t seem to be a threat, a bubble team was pretty much how they were looked at until now. The Isles, I certainly didn’t see them in the ECF this year. St. Louis, cup champs last year, first round disappointment this year. The Avs, on paper should be the powerhouse in the west, eliminated by an aging, bubble team in Dallas.

In 2018-2019 had the Flames been hot in the second half rather than the first, who knows what could have happened?

I think we’ve got to ride this core out, see if the stars align in the playoffs and we can make a deep run. With the parity in the league that’s what most teams are waiting for.

I agree with this however i would want to upgrade on Monahan as our best centre. If we do just that and some tweaks here and there we can maybe make some noise.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

No matter how many times you say it Hall isn't better than Gaudreau, trading Gaudreau and signing Hall for $8-9m will be the beginning of the end for Treliving.

in a vacuum you're right. This is not a vacuum.

Gaudreau > Hall, you're 100% right but is Gaudreau better than Hall + the return?

Say Barzal all of a sudden hates the Islanders and wants out and a larger deal is made but the centerpieces are Gaudreau and Barzal?

is Gaudreau better than Hall and Barzal?

No, Gaudreau is good but not that good. I don't think anyone is saying Hall is better than Gaudreau but there is more to it. It depends on the return they could get for Gaudreau. if they get a package around Danault, it's a HUGE loss but if they get a home run return it will be better for the team.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by New Era

Patrick is damaged goods. Never get involved with someone with chronic migraines. You can't count on them. They could be fine one day, then out for a week the next. Hell, they can be good for one period, then out because something flared up a migraine.



No, no speculation. Patrick didn't play a shift in seventeen months and it has been disclosed as migraines being the issue. I don't like guys with neurological issues. They are highly unpredictable and can put a guy on IR for the simplest of reasons. Nolan Patrick is a no go.

Frost+Myers is more than enough to be worth then taking on a gamble in patrick. Would be a great move for the future of the team.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Poe969

in a vacuum you're right. This is not a vacuum.

Gaudreau > Hall, you're 100% right but is Gaudreau better than Hall + the return?

Say Barzal all of a sudden hates the Islanders and wants out and a larger deal is made but the centerpieces are Gaudreau and Barzal?

is Gaudreau better than Hall and Barzal?

No, Gaudreau is good but not that good. I don't think anyone is saying Hall is better than Gaudreau but there is more to it. It depends on the return they could get for Gaudreau. if they get a package around Danault, it's a HUGE loss but if they get a home run return it will be better for the team.

To many "ifs" and Jaydee did say Hall was better than Gaudreau which is why a responded.

[Roof-Daddy]

I know everybody figures I'm a nut bar, but I still believe that if the Flyers trade for Gaudreau and send us a C back, the most likely guy is Couturier. Especially if they have a pretty good idea that Patrick is going to be fine long term.

Giroux can play C and has a full NMC
Hayes is a solid C and also has a NMC
Frost I imagine they are very high on, plus he's expansion exempt and on his ELC

Plus, if they trade for Gaudreau, it's going to be with a clear goal to extend him long term and they won't want to have to deal with Johnny, Couturier and Giroux all going UFA in the same off season. Giroux should be easy enough on some sort of legacy extension in his declining years to stay with the Flyers, but Johnny and Couturier will both be looking for massive long term extensions.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Laine isn't getting traded, Frank is wanting clickbait.

Only because his 40 goals is worth way more than anyone would be willing to pay for this kid.