WCSF - Vegas Golden Knights (1) vs. Vancouver Canucks (5)

[Sainters7]

Woah, just noticed game 7 is tonight. Game 7 on a back to back?? Why shoehorn it in like that, when there's no other game booked in that rink the following day? 2020 is weird, man..

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

He looked like a Huberdeau level 1st overall.

Now he looks like the best player in the league.

no way, this is going too far. I'm not even sure what this comparison means since Huberdeau was neither a 1st overall nor a centre. and even then there's two Huberdeaus (just like MacKinnon), the early 50-60 point guy and the more recent >PPG all star.

MacK's raw attributes - explosive skating, puck handling, overwhelming shot volume - have always been there since his excellent rookie season. he was never a Monahan that thrived on one very specific skill (skate to slot, receive pass, quick release exactly 1 foot off the ice blocker side). I traded for him in my fantasy league after his 38 point sophomore season because I knew there was little chance his skills would lead to stagnation.

bad team, bad luck, and underdeveloped decision making suppressed MacK's point totals in years 2-4, but having watched him closely through those down years, I was not the least bit surprised when he blew up in 2017-18. yes there were a lot of determined off-seasons and hanging out with Crosby in the Tim Hortons drive through, but that won't help you become the best player on the planet unless there's a near-generational foundation to start from.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Tre had also been GM for about a month at that point.

IMO the 2014 draft is very much a Brian Burke draft.

All of the criteria that scouts and the leadership team would have been focusing on would have been criteria that were provided by Burke. All of the scouting and rankings were probably pretty close to being completed by the time Treliving was on board with the organization.

Also since he was hired from another organization there are sometimes rules around how much involvement is allowed in that first draft since you don't want him leaving and bringing knowledge the Coyotes staff would have from their scouting.

If you look at the picks made in that 2014 draft (emphasizing size and grit) and compare them to the picks made 2015 onwards that emphasize skill...you see a clearly different drafting philosophy.

You're absolutely right, I wasn't trying to pin it on Tre (I probably should have left him out of my post entirely). It was on the scouts IMO.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

So if the Canucks win tonight they are going to have way more playoff success than the Flames have had since 04

Why is everything a comparison?

That battle was already lost after 2011.

It just astounds me that an idiot like Benning and our ex-AGM can assemble a (seemingly) more effective rebuild in shorter time.

What ratio of brains to luck is it. Im suspecting it falls more and more on the luck side. But I feel like the nucks didn't complicate things after conceding that they had moved into full rebuild. They collected the picks and made them. No "now" moves to boost them into bubble territory where they wouldn't draft top ten. Accepted the fate, chugged along and let the crop develop. Doesn't have to be complicated.

Mind you it feels like the team is running on magic fairy dust since round one with high conversion rate while getting the ice tilted against them and they could easily regress to being a 10th place type team next year but we'll see i guess.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They are the 8th team of 8 in pretty much every stat.

Not goaltending!

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Not goaltending!

That's everyone's point.....

Made the season on Markstrom's back, now still in playoffs on Demko's.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

no way, this is going too far. I'm not even sure what this comparison means since Huberdeau was neither a 1st overall nor a centre. and even then there's two Huberdeaus (just like MacKinnon), the early 50-60 point guy and the more recent >PPG all star.

MacK's raw attributes - explosive skating, puck handling, overwhelming shot volume - have always been there since his excellent rookie season. he was never a Monahan that thrived on one very specific skill (skate to slot, receive pass, quick release exactly 1 foot off the ice blocker side). I traded for him in my fantasy league after his 38 point sophomore season because I knew there was little chance his skills would lead to stagnation.

bad team, bad luck, and underdeveloped decision making suppressed MacK's point totals in years 2-4, but having watched him closely through those down years, I was not the least bit surprised when he blew up in 2017-18. yes there were a lot of determined off-seasons and hanging out with Crosby in the Tim Hortons drive through, but that won't help you become the best player on the planet unless there's a near-generational foundation to start from.

Ya my bad, I was thinking huberdeau went 1st and won the Calder like Mac.

I agree with everything you wrote except that I think a huge part of 'potential' is actually down to whether a player is willing to deconstruct and or improve.

He was always physically gifted but becoming a tank is a big reason why he's the player he is now, he's physically stronger than most of the guys on the ice which makes his speed much harder to deal with.

He's iginla-esque though in his commitment to training away from the ice surface.

The last thing I read was that he's 25-35 lbs heavier now than he was during his rookie season. Part of that is filling out, but a bigger part of that is crushing it away from the regular season where it is nearly impossible to add mass and strength due to the rigors of the 82 game schedule.

It takes commitment.

You have to want to be that guy.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by 3rd liner

F*** Vegas and their arrogance. Is Reaves yapping now? It makes me fairly nauseous to hope the Canucks win, but I truly despise the knights, only second to the oilers. If you put all of the Canucks players in a different uniform I would be ok with them. Bring on game 7. Whoever wins I will be laughing at the loser.
Two game 7’s tomorrow. Fun day.

The same could be said about most players, we essentially cheer for jerseys. That being said, the Canucks jersey is a rancid as their fans. Eff them.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Why is everything a comparison?



That battle was already lost after 2011.



It just astounds me that an idiot like Benning and our ex-AGM can assemble a (seemingly) more effective rebuild in shorter time.



What ratio of brains to luck is it. Im suspecting it falls more and more on the luck side. But I feel like the nucks didn't complicate things after conceding that they had moved into full rebuild. They collected the picks and made them. No "now" moves to boost them into bubble territory where they wouldn't draft top ten. Accepted the fate, chugged along and let the crop develop. Doesn't have to be complicated...

The Miller trade strikes me very much as a "now" move, but the early returns have been very good. I think the Canucks still run the risk of too much too soon—they are wildly exceeding expectations on the backs of a couple players still on their ELCs. But building on this will become more difficult in another year or two when Pettersson and Hughes cash in on their second contracts.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[djsFlames]

I remember laughing at how the Flames lost a couple games in Van where they outshot them 2-3 to 1 thinking "wow, well at least that isn't sustainable, they were dominated"

Jokes on me I guess cause here they've made a whole team identity out of it.

I respected the play of the 2011 canucks but didn't respect the players, now I think that's been reversed. They probably don't deserve to be here at this stage, but the kids are nice and skilled.

[Flash Walken]

The Miller trade is definitely a win now move and the Canucks are not a model franchise to emulate.

Having said that, they are a better run organization than the Flames, but we will see how long that holds up following this playoff success.

[MoneyGuy]

Im not a Canucks fan but I may jump on the Canucks bandwagon. It’d be nice to see the cup in Canada again. It’ll be a game-time decision, much like the Grey Cup game when I was cheering for Hamilton but when the game was about to start I decided to cheer for Winnipeg.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Miller trade is definitely a win now move and the Canucks are not a model franchise to emulate.

Having said that, they are a better run organization than the Flames, but we will see how long that holds up following this playoff success.

They'll do what every Canadian team does when it tastes early success in their rebuild. Blow it.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Im not a Canucks fan but I may jump on the Canucks bandwagon. It’d be nice to see the cup in Canada again. It’ll be a game-time decision, much like the Grey Cup game when I was cheering for Hamilton but when the game was about to start I decided to cheer for Winnipeg.

Since they have gotten this far already, I want the Canucks to lose in the Cup Finals in Game 7 OT on a shorthanded goal.

Riots baby!!

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Miller trade is definitely a win now move and the Canucks are not a model franchise to emulate.

Having said that, they are a better run organization than the Flames, but we will see how long that holds up following this playoff success.

I was referring to now moves while in the fetal stage of the rebuild.

Miller was well after that.

Basically indirectly pointing out how the Flames tend to take aim at 8th seed even in years when its in their best interest not to.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Toonage

They'll do what every Canadian team does when it tastes early success in their rebuild. Blow it.

They've already blown it without realizing it yet. The Canucks are succeeding in spite of themselves.

There is a lot of feel good due to the improbability of the situation they find themselves in, but the reason it's so improbable is because they are actually a pretty bad team with a ton of bad money devoted to average players.

Tyler Myers contract with Eriksson already on the roster is a disaster.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I was referring to now moves while in the fetal stage of the rebuild.



Miller was well after that.



Basically indirectly pointing out how the Flames tend to take aim at 8th seed even in years when its in their best interest not to.

Miller was well after the "fetal stage"? How do you figure? They finished 12th in the West in Pettersson's rookie season when they made that deal.

That looks very much like the "fetal stage" to me, and I don't see gow it compares more or less favorably to what the Flames had done in the past.

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[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Toonage

They'll do what every Canadian team does when it tastes early success in their rebuild. Blow it.

I swear this is true.

Taste of success leads teams to make dumb UFA signings and splurge picks on vets which handcuffs them and shortens their window.

Patience and a conservative approach pays if you have a good core.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Im not a Canucks fan but I may jump on the Canucks bandwagon. It’d be nice to see the cup in Canada again. .

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I was referring to now moves while in the fetal stage of the rebuild.

Miller was well after that.

Basically indirectly pointing out how the Flames tend to take aim at 8th seed even in years when its in their best interest not to.

The Canucks traded there first and second round pick and were a wild card team who was looking like they might fall out of a playoff spot before covid.

They have been badly outplayed most of the playoffs other than in goal...let's be real the Canucks are fortunate to be alive right now and look at their upcoming cap they can't even keep this team together