Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

So you are in agreement that we should wait for a court case to reserve judgement.

There is no court case, there rarely is when the cops kill someone, if the cops had been arrested I would agree, but they haven't, cops never get treated like you or I, if we shot someone under any circumstance we would be taken into custody and arrested, the cops have been sent home from work.

The cop that murdered my foster kids uncle in Seattle a few years ago was fired, not arrested, just fired.

[PsYcNeT]

Its cool and good the cops murdered another bad black man with even worse criminal allegations and more muddy scene of death. No more namby pamby "drugs in his system" arguments

At least now we can spend 15 pages arguing about it instead of the general trend of murdering unarmed black people.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Its cool and good the cops murdered another bad black man with even worse criminal allegations and more muddy scene of death. No more namby pamby "drugs in his system" arguments

At least now we can spend 15 pages arguing about it instead of the general trend of murdering unarmed black people.

Was there anyone in the George Flloyd discussion who thought the police should be exonerated?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

In May he broke into his ex's house and raped her. He proceeded to take her debit cards, keys and fled in her vehicle.

In July he was charged with a felony for 3rd degree sexual assault stemming from that incident. Because of this the woman had a restraining order on him.

In August the incident took place where he broke the restraining order and apparently tried to steal her car again or whatever other reason he grabbed her keys. Obviously she felt threatened enough to call 911 on this man breaking his restraining order.

Her having three kids with him and him being shot in front of his three kids was connecting dots that may not have been there. But like I said, who cares they all deserved to be protected.

I think most of this comes down to how I feel about knives. They are far deadly than some people give them credit. In that vicinity, he might as well had a loaded gun (which I never once claimed...).

You really need to read the articles you link. Try reading the complaint.

https://archive.is/YcYRU

Things that really stand out in this report that make me believe this is a power play:

LNB rented a vehicle for the weekend because she didn’t think her vehicle would make it because of mechanical issues.

The same vehicle that the complainant says was stolen. More on this issue later.

LNB asked her sister Tamara to stay the night and watch her three children while she was gone. LNB returned home at about 4:11AM, her sister was sleeping in the living room on the couch with numerous children so LNB brought her son with her into the first bedroom down the hallway on the east wall, they then lay down to go to sleep.

A witness was in the house but could not provide a corroborating statement to support the claims of the complainant.

LNB stated she was upset but collected herself and ran after the defendant out the front door and then realized her vehicle was missing. LNB ran back inside to her purse, which was on the kitchen counter and checked it, quickly realizing her key to her truck (Ford Explorer 2002), a black individual key and the only key for the vehicle and her Great Lakes Debit Card were missing. LNB immediately called 911 and while waiting for Officers, checked her Great Lakes Account and saw two fraudulent ATM withdrawals on May 3, 2020 that she did not make, both at PNC Bank, 3920 Washington Road, both for $500, at an unknown time,

Again, a possible witness was in the house and such a commotion did not alert the possible witness of these events. The details the witness did provide contradicted the story of the complainant.

Officer Matz spoke to LNB’s sister Tamara, and she advised after LNB had left, the defendant came to the residence for around ten minutes and interacted with the children.

LNB stated whenthe defendant comes over he usually yells through a window for someone to let him in and most likely when he showed up he possibly had one of the children remove the chain latch so he could enter.

So based on the witness testimony and the complainant's own admission it is more probable that the children let the accused into the house. Especially since the witness stated he interacted with the children.

LNB stated she has let the defendant use her vehicle in the past, but that he always asks first,stating it was inappropriate for him to go into her purse.

So the accused had used the vehicle many times in the past, and the complainant had taken out a rental because she believed the vehicle unreliable.

LNB declined to be seen by an FNE, sheepishly saying she’d been through enough and was still very humiliated and upset by the sexual assault. Officer Raiche reports LNB was only wearing a nightgown with no undergarments, so there was nothing to collect for evidentiary purposes.

So she was claiming sexual assault but she refused to she an examiner who could collect evidence to support such a claim? Doesn't smell right.

On May 4, 2020 Officer Courtier met with LNB who stated her Ford Explorer was returned. The defendant had told LNB’s sister, Tamara, he had parked the vehicle outside of her (Tamara’s) residence with the keys. LNB stated she went to Illinois and picked up her vehicle, which was not damaged.

The witness corroborated the accused had returned the vehicle, with the keys and no damage. This appears to be consistent with the comments of the complainant of past instances where the boy friend used the vehicle.

Detective Kunz reports he followed up with PNC Bank ATM and Kwik Trip and searched footage atthe store between the hours of 0500-0615 on the morning of the incident and at this time, is wasbelieved there was no video evidence based on the information obtained so far.

No evidence of any activity from the very locations the complainant told officers the money had been withdrawals. The story continues to unravel.

On May 5, 2020 Detective Kunz spoke with LNB who advised she had located her debit card in her rental after she had cancelled the card and she did not know who made the transactions.

The complainant "found her stolen card" in her rental vehicle, meaning the accused did not take the debt card nor steal any money. The complainant lied to officers about the actions of the accused.

Even though there was a witness in the house at the time of the incidents leading up to the complaint, there investigation could produce no evidence of such claims leveled at the accused. In fact, the investigation discovered several inconsistencies in the complainant's story that would lead one to believe she had lied and many of the details. If she lied about so many details (breaking in, stealing her debit card, stealing money from the account, and the confusion on the vehicle), and refused to work with an examiner to collect evidence of the assault, what is there left here? It basically boils down a she-said-he-said situation, and the number of lies she spun to officers does not provide much credibility to her claims.

#meetoo

[Oling_Roachinen]

Even if he was being set up by here, why go to her house with a knife when there is a restraining order preventing him from doing so? Why not wait until court. He put himself in a position to have 911 called on him, no one else did.

Not that it matters, if he was shot for wielding a knife in close vicinity to children after a violent encounter, I don't fault the police. You don't get to gamble with public safety by letting a man get into an enclosed space with a weapon.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

You don't get to gamble with public safety by letting a man get into an enclosed space with a weapon.

You say this like it's some well-known rule...why not? How was public safety put at risk by him having a knife in a car?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

In August the incident took place where he broke the restraining order and apparently tried to steal her car again or whatever other reason he grabbed her keys. Obviously she felt threatened enough to call 911 on this man breaking his restraining order.

Her having three kids with him and him being shot in front of his three kids was connecting dots that may not have been there. But like I said, who cares they all deserved to be protected.

Couple things:
1. You’re taking the statement from the attorney for the police union as gospel, but it’s important to remember it’s one very biased side of the story, just as if we were to take the statements from Blake’s lawyer as gospel. Two people that were there, two very different stories, two strong motivations for theirs being true. You cannot just assume these things are true because one lawyer said them. We know what we know from the video, and have some idea from what little has been said by witnesses/bystanders and the information that has been agreed upon by the DOJ, the police, and Blake.

2. I’m curious where you’ve seen that the lady who called the cops was the same one as the victim from the May assault, or where it states the two had three kids together.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Even if he was being set up by here, why go to her house with a knife when there is a restraining order preventing him from doing so? Why not wait until court. He put himself in a position to have 911 called on him, no one else did.

Not that it matters, if he was shot for wielding a knife in close vicinity to children after a violent encounter, I don't fault the police. You don't get to gamble with public safety by letting a man get into an enclosed space with a weapon.

Do we even know where the knife was? Was he 'wielding' it? Was is on him somewhere? Was it in the car?

I really haven't read anywhere where it was specifically, just asking.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

You say this like it's some well-known rule...why not? How was public safety put at risk by him having a knife in a car?

The three kids in the car with him don't count as 'public'?

If he was in the car by himself, he's just putting himself at risk. But since he's around 3 people, it's a problem.

Which is a problem I was talking about earlier...police worst-case scenario'ing...and that they have to, to some extent. For the sake of argument, let's say he did have a knife. Police don't stop him and he gets into the car with the children. Something happens to those children...who's going to catch the blame. The police, for not stopping him earlier.

This is a big problem. Worst-case scenario prep/prevention.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

. For the sake of argument, let's say he did have a knife. Police don't stop him and he gets into the car with the children. Something happens to those children...who's going to catch the blame.

The guy with the knife that did "something"?

[Looch City]

Hear me out guys, what if....what if hypothetically speaking...the guy was white??

We could have avoided all this going by the fact of how an underaged white guy was able to walking around with a rifle.

Problem solved. And it's also his fault for being the wrong colour.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Even if he was being set up by here, why go to her house with a knife when there is a restraining order preventing him from doing so? Why not wait until court. He put himself in a position to have 911 called on him, no one else did.

He likely didn't go there with any intent. You are forgetting that Blake was trying to stop an altercation between two women, his ex and his current girl friend. It is most likely that Blake and his girlfriend went to his ex's house to pick up the children for visitation (the children were already in the car) or retrieve some personal effects, and his girl friend was the one who made contact. The two women got into an altercation while Blake waited in the vehicle with the children, and when he witnessed this he got out to break up the fight. That seems to be the most likely scenario here when you consider the reason the cops were called (fight between the two women) and the involvement of the children.

You're also making this massive assumption that he had a knife on him and that it was not in the vehicle, where it was found after a search. None of the witnesses mention seeing a knife nor report any instances of Blake brandishing a weapon. You appear to be taking information from a source your own Snopes article debunked.

"Aug. 24, 2020, retired police officer and right-wing commentator Brandon Tatum published a widely shared tweet in which he labeled Blake a “domestic abuser and sex offender” and included a screenshot of the 2015 Racine County Eye article, adding the claim that Blake was “known for pulling guns on people.” As of Aug. 26, 2020, Blake had not yet even entered a plea in relation to the domestic abuse and sexual assault charges against him, not to mention being tried or convicted on them, and the latter accusation had to do with charges that were dropped by the prosecutor in the case."

Again, you are making claims that have no support, even from the sources YOU posted in support of your claims.

"In September 2015, the Racine County Eye reported that Blake had been arrested after brandishing a gun at a bar in Racine, and that officers required the assistance of a police dog when Blake allegedly refused to comply with their orders. He was charged with several offenses, including: felony resisting arrest “causing a soft tissue injury to a police officer”; carrying a firearm while intoxicated; and endangering safety by the use of a dangerous weapon.

However, Blake was never tried or convicted on those charges, and in August 2020, the Racine County Eye reported that the charges appear to have been dismissed at the urging of the prosecutor and no longer appear in public court records.

Similarly, Blake has not been tried or convicted on the charges he faced in July 2020, including third-degree sexual assault, and he has not yet entered a plea in that case. Thus, social media posts that described Blake as a “convicted sex offender” and “convicted rapist” were inaccurate at the time they were posted."

To reiterate, Blake did not have a criminal record.

"A search of Blake’s name in Wisconsin Circuit Court records revealed only child support disputes and a June 2018 conviction in Racine County on a charge of operating a vehicle without being in possession of a driver’s license, which is not a criminal offense and was resolved with a fine. Blake is not listed on the Wisconsin Department of Corrections Sex Offender Registry."

What is missing in all of this is motive or intent. What was Blake's motive or intent in all of this? What is behind all of this? I don't see any motive or intent for Blake in any of this. The reason he was involved in the incident that led up to him being shot was the fact he was trying to break up an altercation between his ex and his girl friend. Nothing sinister there.

You want motive or intent from his ex for all of this drama? Well there it is. Child support. And his ex had taken court action against him before to try and get money out of him.

Not that it matters, if he was shot for wielding a knife in close vicinity to children after a violent encounter, I don't fault the police. You don't get to gamble with public safety by letting a man get into an enclosed space with a weapon.

Except he wasn't wielding a knife in close proximity to children. There are no witness to corroborate that story. It seems you're going on information that your own articles have contradicted.

We really don't know what the Kenosha police department thinks or what their policies are. We know that they will shoot a blackman in the back multiple times after not controlling him, even though they had the upper hand and numbers on their side. We also know they will allow a white man carrying a AR-15, being chased by a mob shouting he just shot and killed people, to walk right by them and then offer him water. The Kenosha police department has a lot to answer for in the coming days. I don't think any of this looks good for them.

Maybe this report from the Brennan Center for Justice will shed some light on the issue?

Hidden in Plain Sight: Racism, White Supremacy, and Far-Right Militancy in Law Enforcement

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

The three kids in the car with him don't count as 'public'?

If he was in the car by himself, he's just putting himself at risk. But since he's around 3 people, it's a problem.

I think I addressed this earlier - I'm not sure there was any reason to believe he was a risk to them, unless there's information I'm not aware of. How far does this "worst case scenario-ing" you speak of go?

I mean, I drive around with a knife in my car during the winter when I have a whole backpack full of gear in there. I could, hypothetically, use it to kill anyone who I happen to be driving around. I could even get out of my car with it and kill people on the sidewalk. But there's no compelling reason to think I will do that. It's just a worst case scenario.

Maybe in this case you'd say the risk to the kids is higher than the risk of me randomly killing people with my knife. But is it really that much higher? Don't you need something to go on? If he'd said something that suggested he intended to do harm to them, maybe. But... they're his kids. Why would anyone just assume they were in danger because their father was about to get into the front seat of a car that they were in?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Do we even know where the knife was? Was he 'wielding' it? Was is on him somewhere? Was it in the car?

I really haven't read anywhere where it was specifically, just asking.

The only thing that seems to be confirmed and not really disputed is that a knife was found on the driver-side floor of the vehicle and that officials say that Blake admitted that he had one in his possession.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/shots-fire...ry?id=72616792

Blake admitted that he had a knife during the DOJ's investigation, and agents recovered a knife from the driver’s side floorboard of his car, officials said. No other weapons were found.

Cops can be heard in the video yelling "drop the knife" and based on granulated stillcaps of the video, he appears to be holding an object. When he is shot, his arm that was holding that object is inside the vehicle. Leading many to speculate that the object he appears to be holding was dropped and landed on the floor.

It's the official position of the police union that he had a knife.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/28/us/ja...day/index.html

On Friday, the Kenosha Professional Police Association took issue with the public narrative, saying that he confronted officers, put an officer in a headlock and carried a knife that he refused to drop when ordered to by police, the union said.

No one else has come out and said it, such as the investigators, but that's obvious because they are investigating before confirming anything. Which is exactly what you hope for.

I'm sure there's a lot of police shootings where they hit the "lottery" and find the victim next to or in close proximity to a weapon by pure chance. But with video of the police yelling at him to drop the knife, and a knife being on the floor exactly where you would expect it to be if he had one, seems like this won't be the case. But, no harm waiting for more facts.

Originally Posted by New Era

That seems to be the most likely scenario here when you consider the reason the cops were called (fight between the two women) and the involvement of the children.

This has been debunked. Dispatch video clearly shows the call was for Blake himself. Not for women fighting.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Couple things:
1. You’re taking the statement from the attorney for the police union as gospel,

No I'm not because I preface everything with if that was the case. We were talking hypotheticals. I presented both extreme narratives. Weird how you didn't jump on both narratives though.

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

The Kenosha shooting falling somewhere between "Man only their to break up fight between women, peacefully walks away from police and gets shot in back" to "Rape victim calls 911 as her assailant violates his restraining-order to intimidate and rob her, then violently fights off cops who tried to arrest him for his outstanding warrants, pulls out knife and approaches young children before getting shot" I think shows that no one cares about the facts anymore. Politicians and media using us as pawns.

I would give you a lot more credit if you took issue with the first narrative as well because we know that police were called, not for a fight, but because Blake was breaking his restraining order and trying to take keys. We also have video of the struggle between him and police now, so it's completely wrong to say peacefully but, again, it doesn't seem like you have an issue with me presenting that narrative as it fits your views and only want to dispute the one that doesn't.

But I digress, if he had no knife and was shot in the back by police, it's obvious I am against that. It doesn't need debate.

But then I was asked why I would be okay with the shooting if he had a knife. I believe police should (should being keyword, they don't) have a responsibility for public safety above all else. This is the same when the police drove through the crowd which I was against. Police can't allow the public to be put in harm when they have other options. I believe a violent man with a knife (if that's the case........) to be in close proximity, in a enclosed space, next to children, to not be safe. Police had but one choice at that point in my opinion.

Not that it would really alter my views, because I don't think police should gamble with children's lives at all, but I don't think it's been stated anywhere that police knew they were his children anyways.

[OMG!WTF!]

I'm willing to ignore all the other stuff and say this was just terrible policing. I think 3 cops should be able to achieve a better continuum of force than grab suspects tshirt, shoot seven times. I think a lot of these issues stem from ego too, not wanting to go back to the office knowing one got away from you, not wanting to involve half the on duty officers looking for your guy. The drunk guy sleeping in the Wendy's parking lot, the guy is SC who just ran away but got shot in the back as well. Seems totally ego driven a lot of the time. Like I can't let you beat me cause I'll get roasted for it so here's a few shells for you.

[dobbles]

So let me get this straight? Police needed to use lethal force because Blake could have gotten his knife in the car and taken the kids hostage and put them in danger? And to prevent a hypothetical dangerous situation, the solution was to fire bullets at the car with the kids in it? Am I getting this bulls%&t right?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Hear me out guys, what if....what if hypothetically speaking...the guy was white??

Black Americans shot and killed by police so far in 2020: 123

White American shot and killed by police so far in 2020: 242

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

In 2019, 25 unarmed white Americans and 14 unarmed Black Americans were shot and killed by police.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ings-database/

Black Americans are disproportionately likely to be shot and killed by police. But to pretend that this only happens to Black Americans is to betray either remarkable ignorance or toxic tribalism.

In a society awash in firearms, lethal confrontations between poorly-trained police and civilians will be commonplace (31 American police officers have been fatally shot so far in 2020). Only a tiny fraction of them become viral videos.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

No I'm not because I preface everything with if that was the case. We were talking hypotheticals. I presented both extreme narratives. Weird how you didn't jump on both narratives though.

Well from what I saw you gave one extreme narrative a sentence, and the other extreme narrative multiple posts of hypothetical justification.

Weird how you spent more time on the one that justifies his shooting, though.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dobbles

So let me get this straight? Police needed to use lethal force because Blake could have gotten his knife

Had a knife in his hand, as alleged by the police. If you don't believe the police, fair enough we have a lot of reason not to, but to completely ignore their version of events to make up your own is weird.

Seems like people latched onto the "unarmed" man getting shot and refuse to concede there is evident that he may not have been unarmed.