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Old 08-23-2020, 10:44 AM   #3201
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Originally Posted by mrdonkey View Post
Florida doesn't even have a GM at the moment, and the guy they do hire probably wants to take stock of what he's got before making a major trade.
Fair enough, just bored
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:45 AM   #3202
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Fourth Period speculating Flames may try and trade for Hall's rights before free agency begins.
Yeah this is not surprise if it happens.

I think his plan was to get Hall at the deadline, extend him and then move Gaudreau in another deal at the deadline as well.

I imagine his plan hasn't changed too much given what's happened since then.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:45 AM   #3203
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Please no. No more pi$$ing away draft picks. Reeks of Bouwmeester. Bad enough we threw away picks on rentals only to bomb out in first round again. If anything flog rights to Brodie and Hammer to see if we can get anything.
They traded an extra 3rd rounder they had previously acquired. To try and save some cap space on a player that they then signed. How does that “reek”?

Does this allow them to lock him up before the draft, giving us more trade options on a hot day?
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:47 AM   #3204
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Well that wouldn't help the salary reduction for Florida. Was thinking more along the lines of high picks and prospects. Again, only could happen if the rumors of Florida needing to shed salary have any truth
On the last 31 thoughts podcast, I believe, Friedman and Marek spoke about how coach Q went to Florida, in part, because he was going to have some say towards roster composition. They also spoke about how he has spent a lot of time with Barkov and Ekbkad. Sounds like those two are foundational pieces, and rightly so.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:47 AM   #3205
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Fixed.

If the Flames call Florida asking about Barkov, I bet the conversation starts with Tkachuk.
I think the conversation starts with Florida gm laughing. Just can’t see why a team would trade one of the best 200’ centers in the game. If on the very odd chance they do consider trading him,I have no problem with the flames throwing Tkachuk Into conversation. I absolutely love Tkachuk, but a true #1 center is what we really need. Still will never happen.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:49 AM   #3206
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Please no. No more pi$$ing away draft picks. Reeks of Bouwmeester. Bad enough we threw away picks on rentals only to bomb out in first round again. If anything flog rights to Brodie and Hammer to see if we can get anything.
Yea I don’t want a draft pick traded for the right to talk to Hall but I’m perfectly ok with Jankowski being traded for that right.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:50 AM   #3207
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Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers View Post
They traded an extra 3rd rounder they had previously acquired. To try and save some cap space on a player that they then signed. How does that “reek”?

Does this allow them to lock him up before the draft, giving us more trade options on a hot day?
Yes it does. Its very hard to sign hall and trade johnny for 7th overall pick from the devils when draft day is before free agency. If they waited til free agency now you are looking at picks in 2021 draft as rarely do teams trade guys they just drafted.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:51 AM   #3208
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Fixed.

If the Flames call Florida asking about Barkov, I bet the conversation starts with Tkachuk.
Not that it'd ever happen, but I'd happily throw our 2020 1st and Tkachuk at Florida for Barkov.

If Barkov is available, you just go in HUGE.

Tkachuk and Gaudreau? Yeah, I probably do it.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:51 AM   #3209
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Originally Posted by The Original FFIV View Post
Please no. No more pi$$ing away draft picks. Reeks of Bouwmeester. Bad enough we threw away picks on rentals only to bomb out in first round again. If anything flog rights to Brodie and Hammer to see if we can get anything.
Trading, let’s say, a third for Hall’s negotiation rights (provided he signs) is a trade you make ever day.

Not every 3rd round pick turns out to be Brayden Point.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:52 AM   #3210
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Yeah this is not surprise if it happens.

I think his plan was to get Hall at the deadline, extend him and then move Gaudreau in another deal at the deadline as well.

I imagine his plan hasn't changed too much given what's happened since then.
Getting Hall is just such a quick win for this team. It would go a long way in kicking off this off-season on the right foot.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:53 AM   #3211
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I think the conversation starts with Florida gm laughing. Just can’t see why a team would trade one of the best 200’ centers in the game. If on the very odd chance they do consider trading him,I have no problem with the flames throwing Tkachuk Into conversation. I absolutely love Tkachuk, but a true #1 center is what we really need. Still will never happen.
Hopefully the Panthers hire an idiot yes man to make the owner and his sons feel good and they fall in love with the hype of “Johnny Hockey” and trade us Barkov. I’d even do Johnny and Mony for Barkov.

But Quenneville is there and he’d probably quit before he lets them trade Barkov.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:53 AM   #3212
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The thing about trading for rights isn't so you can save cap space, it's so that you can be the first one to the trough to overpay and convince that player not to go to free agency.

If you're going to make it worth it to trade for someone's rights, you have to make sure you didn't throw away a draft pick for a couple extra days with a phone number.

Bouwmeester isn't the only player who the flames have traded for the rights of only to offer an above market rate contract:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=118592

Fundamentally, you trade for the rights because you aren't super confident your offer will standout next to any others. IMO, it's a desperation maneuver.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:55 AM   #3213
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Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
The thing about trading for rights isn't so you can save cap space, it's so that you can be the first one to the trough to overpay and convince that player not to go to free agency.

If you're going to make it worth it to trade for someone's rights, you have to make sure you didn't throw away a draft pick for a couple extra days with a phone number.

Bouwmeester isn't the only player who the flames have traded for the rights of only to offer an above market rate contract:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=118592

Fundamentally, you trade for the rights because you aren't super confident your offer will standout next to any others. IMO, it's a desperation maneuver.
Well after barely missing out on several trades that would have made our team significantly better, I’m feeling pretty desperate to increase the odds of getting a player they want. We’re in an undesirable market, plain and simple.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:56 AM   #3214
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Originally Posted by TOfan View Post
Trading, let’s say, a third for Hall’s negotiation rights (provided he signs) is a trade you make ever day.

Not every 3rd round pick turns out to be Brayden Point.
Trade the 3rd rounder they got from Edmonton for Taylor Hall's rights. The irony would be perfect.

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Old 08-23-2020, 10:56 AM   #3215
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Originally Posted by TOfan View Post
Trading, let’s say, a third for Hall’s negotiation rights (provided he signs) is a trade you make ever day.

Not every 3rd round pick turns out to be Brayden Point.
Some of them do. Or Adam Fox.

In the last 5 drafts, Flames have drafted in the third round twice so yeah, I imagine the pick is in play.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:56 AM   #3216
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Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
The thing about trading for rights isn't so you can save cap space, it's so that you can be the first one to the trough to overpay and convince that player not to go to free agency.

If you're going to make it worth it to trade for someone's rights, you have to make sure you didn't throw away a draft pick for a couple extra days with a phone number.

Bouwmeester isn't the only player who the flames have traded for the rights of only to offer an above market rate contract:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=118592

Fundamentally, you trade for the rights because you aren't super confident your offer will standout next to any others. IMO, it's a desperation maneuver.
It may also be a timing thing. Free agency starts after the draft, so if signing a guy like Hall will domino into trading other players for draft picks, you might want to secure Hall before the draft happens so you have a chance at 2020 picks as opposed to 2021 picks that are more of a question mark.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:57 AM   #3217
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Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
The thing about trading for rights isn't so you can save cap space, it's so that you can be the first one to the trough to overpay and convince that player not to go to free agency.

If you're going to make it worth it to trade for someone's rights, you have to make sure you didn't throw away a draft pick for a couple extra days with a phone number.

Bouwmeester isn't the only player who the flames have traded for the rights of only to offer an above market rate contract:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=118592

Fundamentally, you trade for the rights because you aren't super confident your offer will standout next to any others. IMO, it's a desperation maneuver.
Or because you aren't trading Gaudreau without a replacement ready to go. You can't make a trade to create the cap-space for a big free agent prior to free agency and then just hope that it works out...

...mother !@#$ing Jay Feaster. Thanks for Chris Butler you dillhole. Let's PAY to get rid of Robyn Regehr just to take a stab at Brad Richards on Day 1 of free agency ffs. Trades like that set your organization set back hugely.

Speculation aside, Taylor Hall is just one of my favourite non-Flames players in the league. I really want that guy on the team.

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Old 08-23-2020, 10:59 AM   #3218
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Yep, signing Hall means we can explore Gaudreau trades from a position of strength.
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Old 08-23-2020, 11:04 AM   #3219
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Well after barely missing out on several trades that would have made our team significantly better, I’m feeling pretty desperate to increase the odds of getting a player they want. We’re in an undesirable market, plain and simple.
I'm glad we agree it's an undesirable market, that's usually a major obstacle on this board in discussions about team building.

If your team is located in a market no one wants to go in then you shouldn't be playing the free agent game at all. Free agents willing to come to Calgary should probably be seen with a red flag based on recent history.

Rather than spend picks to get early access to a free agent who doesn't really want to be there, just use the picks to draft players who have no choice where they play for 8 years post draft.

The solution to Calgary's problem is staring them in the face. It's the ONLY method they've never actually tried since the first time they did it resulted in them winning the ####ing cup.

Trading picks to get early access to hall in order to pay him 8+ million to stay in order to try to win with a 37 year old Giordano reeks.

If that's the plan the Flames might not get out from under the Treliving blunders for a decade. Probably the worst thing about Treliving's tenure to start with the club was the residual bad decisions still that still plagued the organization like Wideman.
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Old 08-23-2020, 11:08 AM   #3220
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I agree with posts above that the Flames view this as a contingency, can't trade Gaudreau without a replacement already secured.

This was the same reasoning for why brouwer was bought out in August vs. June buyout window; Treliving had to make sure he had Neal signed.

When you actually consider that as a course of action, it illustrates how poor of a plan it really is.

What's the plan if it doesn't come to fruition, what if Hall doesn't sign in Calgary?
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