American Politics Thread: The Hunt for Blue November

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

There must be far superior options to Biden but he’s a he1l of a lot better than Trump.

Bernie is just as old and senile as the other two

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

The thing you're missing is that Biden is the nominee.

Are there better people than Biden to be president? If there are, they aren't running.

To campaign and decry Biden in a two-party system is an endorsement of the other candidate. You might not mean it to be, you might not think that should be the case, you might hate the other option more. However, in reality it ends up being black and white, 1s and 0s, this or that. There is no grey area.

At this point to be anti-Biden is pro-Trump. Don't hate the players, hate the game.

The last election proved that you can't critique one candidate while silently hating the other. That's what happened to Hillary, and why the US is in the mess it's in currently.

So to hell with intellectual honesty and objectivity then? At that point Trump and his ilk have already won the war even if they lose this particular battle.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I find it interesting how so many people are ready to create their own cult of trump behind Biden. Never question him for any reason because if you do the other guy might win. Is that what you want? The other team to win?

The Party Is Always Right.

Question him if you want it just seems ridiculous..."good people in the KKK" is president currently.

Your far left candidate can't win the swing states sorry pal. People can also disagree with you...Biden is actually realistic with his plans unlike Bernie bros.

I don't think you grasp how dangerous Trump winning again is...he will rewrite the rules

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

The thing you're missing is that Biden is the nominee.

Are there better people than Biden to be president? If there are, they aren't running.

To campaign and decry Biden in a two-party system is an endorsement of the other candidate. You might not mean it to be, you might not think that should be the case, you might hate the other option more. However, in reality it ends up being black and white, 1s and 0s, this or that. There is no grey area.

At this point to be anti-Biden is pro-Trump. Don't hate the players, hate the game.

The last election proved that you can't critique one candidate while silently hating the other. That's what happened to Hillary, and why the US is in the mess it's in currently.

Really? I hate the Alberta UCP, but I certainly won't be voting NDP in the next round.

Biden is terrible and embarrassing. This statement is not an endorsement of Trump (lol). Biden's just lucky there is a historically terrible candidate as incumbent.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Jesus Christ. How did we end up with two clearly senile old men as the only choices in this election?

https://news.yahoo.com/biden-intervi...090013631.html

Because this is what the voters are comfortable with, the voters are always in every society pretty conservative in their outlook and social gains are only ever made in slow incremental steps, there is never, outside of some grim crisis like a war or economic collapse a 'woke' revolutionary moment when a society embraces whole sale change, it just doesnt happen like that and the failure to understand that has hamstrung the left and kept it irrelevant for my 60 years on gods sweet earth.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Question him if you want it just seems ridiculous..."good people in the KKK" is president currently.

Your far left candidate can't win the swing states sorry pal. People can also disagree with you...Biden is actually realistic with his plans unlike Bernie bros.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me. The attempts to stifle any criticism of Biden for "the greater good" is the issue.

[FlamesAddiction]

Trump is downright dangerous. At worst, Biden is the pre-Trump status quo. Not ideal, but it was never going to be.

I don't think there are many candidates that can clean up the mess that Trump made. That is my only criticism of Biden as the choice they are going with. People have an awfully short memory and all the blow back from Trump's policies is going to fall on the next president. By 2028, the pendulum is probably going to swing back hard if things don't improve fast. Unfortunately, Biden and the Democrats are going to get ripped for taking on a nearly impossible task, and I doubt he is strong enough to keep going for 2 terms... and it is going to take at least that to undo what Trump has done.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Super original.

Calls them as I sees them.

You know that telling people to STFU and get behind your team at all costs is kinda authoritarian, too, right? The guy you like isn't as bad as the guy you hate, but he also really sucks. Get over it.

I didn't tell you to STFU, although it would certainly be easier to do and more appropriate based on your insane focus on emphasizing every time Biden farts backwards. I was telling you to look at the bigger picture and recognize the alternative. Biden was not my first, second, or third choice, but I've swallowed my pride and have recognized the alternative is more Trump. My pride can take a #### kicking if it means getting rid of Trump. Yours can take a bruising as well.

Also we know how this game is going to go. Once Biden gets in, centrists will keep trying shut progressives up, lest "we" lose the midterms in 2022, and then again in 2024.

BS. Progressives continue to win seats and take out centrist incumbents. Their voices are being heard and influencing policy. The problem you have is that your not a progressive, you're more of that mythical regressive on the left that the Alt Right likes to point at. You don't seem to understand that a part of of being a progressive is finding compromise that moves things forward. So far you've shown yourself to be a "take my ball and go home" progressive, which is just as bad as Tea Party and Alt Right conservatives. If we want to beat Trump we have to work together, not against each other. We have to make compromises, or we're going to have the ultimate compromise shoved down our throats by Trump in 2021.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Because this is what the voters are comfortable with, the voters are always in every society pretty conservative in their outlook and social gains are only ever made in slow incremental steps, there is never, outside of some grim crisis like a war or economic collapse a 'woke' revolutionary moment when a society embraces whole sale change, it just doesnt happen like that and the failure to understand that has hamstrung the left and kept it irrelevant for my 60 years on gods sweet earth.

The left has been irrelevant because they bought the dogma liberals sold them regarding incremental changes through pacifism and "civil" discourse.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Question him if you want it just seems ridiculous..."good people in the KKK" is president currently.

Your far left candidate can't win the swing states sorry pal. People can also disagree with you...Biden is actually realistic with his plans unlike Bernie bros.

I don't think you grasp how dangerous Trump winning again is...he will rewrite the rules

My far left candidate? The Fox Newsian attacks on anyone who says anything not pro Biden by immediately accusing them of being a Bernie Bro is Republican 101. It’s a bit disappointing but not surprising watching so many people not grasp that they’ve become what they hate.

Trump has already rewritten the rules, you’re playing by them, and you don’t even realise it.

[Looch City]

Just vote Kanye

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by New Era

BS. Progressives continue to win seats and take out centrist incumbents. Their voices are being heard and influencing policy.

True but they're having to fight tooth and nail for every inch. The establishment is throwing gobs of money at their opponents and generally refusing to let them have a seat at the table unless absolutely necessary.

We've also seen this play out before. Look at how any progressives who dared to criticize or vote against Obama were demonized by the party. The Democrats have shown they're consistently willing to play the shame game to shore up their support.

The problem you have is that your not a progressive, you're more of that mythical regressive on the left that the Alt Right likes to point at. You don't seem to understand that a part of of being a progressive is finding compromise that moves things forward. So far you've shown yourself to be a "take my ball and go home" progressive, which is just as bad as Tea Party and Alt Right conservatives.

Criticizing someone isn't "taking your ball and going home." I think Democrats who refuse to acknowledge Biden's shortcomings look just as bad in the eyes of independents and "moderate" Republicans as the MAGA cultists do to independents and leftists. It just comes off as blind partisanship.

It doesn't matter who the candidate is either. If Bernie was the nominee and was saying the same type of dumb #### Biden is, you can be absolutely sure I'd be criticizing him. Blind loyalty to anyone is ridiculous, regardless of the circumstances.

If we want to beat Trump we have to work together, not against each other. We have to make compromises, or we're going to have the ultimate compromise shoved down our throats by Trump in 2021.

Again, no one on the left is saying "don't vote Biden." I think we're all in agreement he's the best of the bad options.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by octothorp

NY Attorney General is going hard after the NRA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...dcc_story.html

Oh man, this makes more excited than Trump being voted out or Republicans losing all power. Crippling the NRA means that responsible gun laws can finally be rolled out without fear of what the organization will do to retaliate. Maybe America is finally moving towards sanity after all these years?

One dares to dream.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

My far left candidate? The Fox Newsian attacks on anyone who says anything not pro Biden by immediately accusing them of being a Bernie Bro is Republican 101. It’s a bit disappointing but not surprising watching so many people not grasp that they’ve become what they hate.

Trump has already rewritten the rules, you’re playing by them, and you don’t even realise it.

It's weird that people don't realize that the purpose of criticizing Biden isn't to get Bernie the nomination. That ship has clearly sailed. The point is that a bit of criticism from the left hopefully causes him to move slightly left on some issues to court leftists voters, and also to get him and the DNC to stop making unforced errors.

Obviously no one in this thread is going to be swayed to vote for Trump based on Biden's gaffes, but there are absolutely undecided voters who might; so clean your #### up, Joe.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So to hell with intellectual honesty and objectivity then? At that point Trump and his ilk have already won the war even if they lose this particular battle.

Thats how it works.

It's stupid.

It shouldn't be.

I don't agree with it.

But that is exactly how the US Presidential electoral system works.

Sorry. I know I am.

[PepsiFree]

That's kind of my issue with it at this point. The time to heavily criticize Biden was in the primaries. Progressives lost, unfortunately. The next time to start criticising Biden is the day he takes the presidency. Biden is not great, nor ideal. He's barely good by any argument. But claiming that people who are making compromises or biting their tongue aren't being objective or intellectually honest is pretty bogus. If we're being intellectually honest, we can see that we have one card to play, and we should play it with as much confidence as possible to win the pot. That's the game. We might not like it, I think any sensible progressive doesn't, but you can't just refuse to play the game and call anyone who does out for being dishonest.

Republicans were criticized for choosing Trump. They've been criticized as spineless for supporting him through the presidency. But supporting Biden in an election when he is the only option, is not the same. If Democrats want the power to shape anything or hold the president accountable, they need to win.

So, sure. If Biden says something dumb I'm going to ignore it, or brush it off, and I'm certainly not going to call attention to it. Why? Because I'd like Trump gone. If the Republicans were running a more balanced candidate that I still disagreed with, that'd be a different conversation, because when you have two equal options on other sides of the aisle, it's important that the best wins, and that can't happen unless you fairly critique both and fairly praise both for what they do well. But unless you believe Trump and Biden are equal options, and you might, I think Biden being the best candidate is a foregone conclusion, so what are we doing pretending otherwise?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Really? I hate the Alberta UCP, but I certainly won't be voting NDP in the next round.

Biden is terrible and embarrassing. This statement is not an endorsement of Trump (lol). Biden's just lucky there is a historically terrible candidate as incumbent.

Really? Yes.

The last election proved that. Enough people bought into Hillary being so awful that they let Trump get elected.

Thats how it works.

It's stupid.

It shouldn't be.

I don't agree with it.

But that is exactly how the US Presidential electoral system works.

Sorry. I know I am.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Bernie is just as old and senile as the other two

In fact, he's the oldest of the three.


It reminds me of a joke I saw a few months ago when it became clear the nominee was going to be either Bernie or Biden: When we said, "Stop electing Baby Boomers", this isn't what we meant.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's weird that people don't realize that the purpose of criticizing Biden isn't to get Bernie the nomination. That ship has clearly sailed. The point is that a bit of criticism from the left hopefully causes him to move slightly left on some issues to court leftists voters, and also to get him and the DNC to stop making unforced errors.

Obviously no one in this thread is going to be swayed to vote for Trump based on Biden's gaffes, but there are absolutely undecided voters who might; so clean your #### up, Joe.

or are you unintentionally convincing people to stay at home and not vote at all, or vote 3rd party?

As in what happened in 2016.

The United States, nor the planet can handle 4+ more years of Trump.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's weird that people don't realize that the purpose of criticizing Biden isn't to get Bernie the nomination. That ship has clearly sailed. The point is that a bit of criticism from the left hopefully causes him to move slightly left on some issues to court leftists voters, and also to get him and the DNC to stop making unforced errors.

Obviously no one in this thread is going to be swayed to vote for Trump based on Biden's gaffes, but there are absolutely undecided voters who might; so clean your #### up, Joe.

Ok, but if we're actually being intellectually honest here, how does criticizing Biden brushing off a question about a cognitive test and calling him senile encourage him to move further left? And how is it "a gaffe"?

That's my issue. Most of these criticisms aren't policy based. They're "look at this old man! lol!"... how is that attempting to sway him left?