2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Ive heard some say the Stone trade would be a good comparable for Gaudreau, which was a top prospect like Brannstrom and a 2nd.

Thing is though, the Sens had to trade Stone immediately or they would have him play out the string and then lose him for nothing when the season ended. They also were limited by his preference for who he wanted to sign an extension with so they essentially couldn't just deal him anywhere they wanted to the highest bidder. With Johnny having two years left and the Flames not having to trade him right away or lose him for nothing, Id expect a bigger return than Stone got if he is traded this off season.

It's not a bad comparison, although due to the two years of control I think that you would have to add Tuch to Brannstrom and maybe bump the picks up to two 2nds. Still, this is all in the realm of likely return.

The lastwordonhockey drivel of Van Rymsdyk, a 'B' prospect and a second is pretty far off value, IMO. Voracek (salary match to Johnny), 'A' prospect and a second (or late first) is getting in the realm again.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Upside (highest potential for success): 1. Lehner 2. Murray 3. Markstrom
Downside (Highest potential of failure): 1. Murray 2. Lehner 3. Markstrom
Asset Cost to Acquire (highest to lowest): 1. Murray T2: Lehner T2:Markstrom
Contract cost: 1. Lehner 2. Murray 3. Markstrom


I think Markstrom is the best of what's available all things considered. But I am not yet sold on the need to sign a new look in net this offseason (yet.)

I view Lehner as the absolute best option available. Markstrom second just because we'd have to trade for Murray, but I don't trust him yet. Honestly if we can't get Lehner and Talbot performs good in the playoffs I'd hope to just bring him back as the starter.

[Poe969]

I like how they say gaudreau is younger, better and cheaper than JVR so thats why the flyers make the trade...why the hell would the Flames?

That's like saying "I'm selling my car because its an old, expensive, piece of crap that breaks down all the time. I'd like full market value."

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

It's not a bad comparison, although due to the two years of control I think that you would have to add Tuch to Brannstrom and maybe bump the picks up to two 2nds. Still, this is all in the realm of likely.

Two years of Johnny vs. Two months of Stone.

That’s a bad comparison.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Why would you trade him now unless you get full value or better?

You can get that #### deal on the deadline right before he goes UFA (actually you still likely do better)

Which is why Johnny probably won't get traded this summer. I don't think his value around the league is as high as many posters think. So either:

1. Johnny gets traded this summer for a return less than what CP is expecting, or
2. Johnny doesn't get traded and we have the same conversation a few years from now, at which point it becomes "why didn't we trade him earlier for a better return"

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I've been a vocal as anyone about the expectations of a return for Johnny, but comparing him to Pacioretty is foolish.

When/if Calgary trades Johnny, they likely won't be looking to take back any meaningful cap hit, and certainly won't be looking to take an a older, more expensive and lesser player.

The basic problem in the article was using the Pacioretty trade as a framework. Apples and oranges.

Maybe not JVR specifically but I think we will need to take back a contract in any deal because of the flat cap. I doubt we get only futures for Johnny.

Also the specificproposal they made is not that great, but I think the framework might be right.

[ForeverFlameFan]

If we have to take back salary, then pick Sanheim. I don’t think we need to be the ones taking back more cap when we’re the ones giving up the better player.

[Poe969]

Again, the only reason Johnny gets traded is if a team overpays, the only reason a team overpays is because they're desperate. Who are some desperate teams who would overpay?

Buffalo
New Jersey
Islanders
Hell, depends how these playoffs go there could be a few teams who want a shot at Johnny. If a team like the pens gets bounced early, I could see them shaking things up. Same goes for teams like Boston or the Flyers.

A bunch of eastern teams who would have a decent chance at re-signing him. Add that to the rumors of Hall wanting to sign here with Chucky already on the LW and its a perfect storm for a Gaudreau trade. If the best offer is JVR...he won't be traded.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Two years of Johnny vs. Two months of Stone.

That’s a bad comparison.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

2 months + the immediate opportunity to sign the player long-term (the deal seems to have been about 99% complete by trade execution)

vs.

2 years + uncertainty



You always have to look at multiple comparables. Stone is one of very few players of Johnny's calibre to be traded in recent years, so it's somewhat relevant, even if the other factors don't match well.

[Roof-Daddy]

If it's in the summer you'd think they could swing another trade to clear salary. If they retained a little on JVR they should easily find a taker for him. Hes still good for 20 plus goals and 45 plus points. He could fetch a similar return as Zucker at $5.5 million AAV.

You just have to wonder how hungry Philly is to tinker. They were on a roll when the pause happened. Hopefully they get beat right away in the playoffs so that if BT looks to move Johnny they'll be front and center bidding.

Honestly, the best possible trade with them would be to get Konecny plus Frost. Especially if the Flames sign Hall.

Tkachuk - Monahan - Lindholm
Taylor Hall - Backlund - Konecny
Mangiapane - Frost - Dube

Just an awesome top 9.


Just seems like a total pipe dream with Konecny blowing up this season and Patrick being such a question mark makes Frost very important to them going forward. Plus Frost is expansion draft exempt.

You'd probably have to add a pretty large piece to Gaudreau to get them to even consider it.

[TheScorpion]

It's a great top-six but I'm not sold on that third line. I like Dube and Mangiapane but is Frost really the 3C you want?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

is Frost really the 3C you want?

You just haven't warmed up to him yet.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

2 months + the immediate opportunity to sign the player long-term (the deal seems to have been about 99% complete by trade execution)

vs.

2 years + uncertainty



You always have to look at multiple comparables. Stone is one of very few players of Johnny's calibre to be traded in recent years, so it's somewhat relevant, even if the other factors don't match well.

Ottawa was trading two months of Stone and the value was based on that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TOfan]

Really don’t like the term ‘overpay’. Overpay compared to what? Do we even know what the market is? No, we don’t. A fan base is only setting themselves up for disappointment discussing a trade in this way.

As far as I see it the reason to trade Gaudreau is because the flames don’t believe he will resign here. If this is the case, and it sounds like it is, it provides them to be specific about addressing organizational needs, I would be more worried about that than looking to bend someone over.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

It's a great top-six but I'm not sold on that third line. I like Dube and Mangiapane but is Frost really the 3C you want?

Um yah, without a doubt.

Especially when he's being backed up/supported by Ryan who is more like the "#3B C" centering the "4th line" with Lucic on his wing.

Frost is loaded with talent. I wouldn't be surprised if by mid season he's taking shifts on the 2nd line in that scenario.

In the next year or two he will probably blow up the way Konecny did this year. And Farabee is another one. The Flyers are fricken loaded with talent.

[TheScorpion]

Oh we still have Ryan in this scenario? That changes things. I'm cool with that

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Oh we still have Ryan in this scenario? That changes things. I'm cool with that

Haha, yeah for sure.

D might be a little thin for a year, but what better way to bring a young C into the league than to have him sandwiched in there with Backlund and Ryan, as well as Mony too.

Tkachuk - Monahan - Lindholm
Taylor Hall - Backlund - Konecny
Mangiapane - Frost - Dube
Milan Lucic - Ryan - Phillips/Gawdin

[Bonded]

Lol. If a JVR type player is the center piece of the return don't even bother. I'd rather gamble on two years of Gaudreau.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Lol. If a JVR type player is the center piece of the return don't even bother. I'd rather gamble on two years of Gaudreau.

Easy enough for one of us to say the Flames should just keep him, but I don’t see Treliving letting JG walk in two years with nothing to show. Maybe if the Flames win the cup this year and they want to make another run at it. (Highly doubtful in my eyes).

I’ve definitely grown on New area’s suggested trade, JG for Frost Myers Vorachek. Checks a lot of boxes.

[powderjunkie]

Of course you need to look at multiple trades, but the single best comp might actually be Panarin.

Age 26 (presumably...Russia and all that), signed for 2x6M. Enigmatic, high reward/high risk player. Only two NHL seasons of exceptional data (30G-77P, 31G-74P), but his continued superstardom was a legit questionmark.

Traded with Tyler Motte (22 yo former 4th rounder; 7P in 33gp to that point) and a 6th (2017) for:

Saad (4x6M) - 1 yr younger than Panarin; 31G-53P, then 24G-53P in prev 2 years in CBJ.
Anton Forsberg (was about to turn 25 yo; former 7th round pick, had played 10gp across 3 seasons, but only 1 in the most recent year)
5th (2018).

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Ottawa was trading two months of Stone and the value was based on that.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Turns out it did take about 2 weeks to get ink on paper, though IIRC there were rumblings that he was especially keen on Vegas. Stone is with Newsport...w/ or w/o OTT's permission, GMGM knew where things stood.