2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[dammage79]

On this episode of black mirror: Two Cobras go at it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He has a specific ongoing habit of miss-representing the opinions on the board and over-stating how many people on this board feel a certain way.
That type of hyperbole doesn't make for good debate or discussion.
I think this is a great community and when people make comments that look down upon it - I find that irritating.

And no - I don't think a lot of fans would feel that way. He's a player that's been a fan favorite in every stop, including in junior.
So why on earth would a lot of Flames fans feel that way? And furthermore why say it?

How is saying a large number of the board will make an oncoming player a whipping boy degrading the community? It has happened time and time again. You have a list of members you disagree with that you attack on here time and time again because they have differing opinions. That is fine for a regular poster but makes the site look pretty bad coming from a moderator. Whenever anyone has a differing opinion about the physicality of the game which is a touchy subject for you or other things you make baseless accusations and go on a tangent. That is also irritating. Again, if you don't like my opinion there is the ignore button. Now I am through with this. Now TOfan or someone else will break board rules and personally attack me and you will look the other way. Rinse and repeat.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by dammage79

On this episode of black mirror: Two Cobras go at it.

But then it turns out the whole thing was an app

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Every one of your comments is negative and either completely untrue or highly exaggerated.

I'm not sure why anyone ever responds to your posts.

It's a useless exercise.

I totally.thought you were arguing with yourself.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How is saying a large number of the board will make an oncoming player a whipping boy degrading the community? It has happened time and time again. You have a list of members you disagree with that you attack on here time and time again because they have differing opinions. That is fine for a regular poster but makes the site look pretty bad coming from a moderator. Whenever anyone has a differing opinion about the physicality of the game which is a touchy subject for you or other things you make baseless accusations and go on a tangent. That is also irritating. Again, if you don't like my opinion there is the ignore button. Now I am through with this. Now TOfan or someone else will break board rules and personally attack me and you will look the other way. Rinse and repeat.

Your interactions with many people on the board aren’t exactly all peaches, so perhaps the victim complex thing would be better played out in front of a more naive audience.

The “the board is a monolith that thinks this dumb way or that dumb way” thing is just silly, really. There are examples of players coming in and being universally loved (or universally hated) so not only is the opinion that “half the board will think like X” dismissive, it’s also just wrong.

And hey, as for the moderator thing, you should probably get over it. I’m pretty sure this is a free board that you get to participate in as a treat, and they’re just a bunch of random dudes with the thankless task of having to moderate the bull#### of some childish men (for free!). It’s ok when moderators disagree with you bud. Don’t take it so hard.

[BlackRedGold25]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How is saying a large number of the board will make an oncoming player a whipping boy degrading the community? It has happened time and time again. You have a list of members you disagree with that you attack on here time and time again because they have differing opinions. That is fine for a regular poster but makes the site look pretty bad coming from a moderator. Whenever anyone has a differing opinion about the physicality of the game which is a touchy subject for you or other things you make baseless accusations and go on a tangent. That is also irritating. Again, if you don't like my opinion there is the ignore button. Now I am through with this. Now TOfan or someone else will break board rules and personally attack me and you will look the other way. Rinse and repeat.

Get off the cross. We need the wood, you hypocrite.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How is saying a large number of the board will make an oncoming player a whipping boy degrading the community? It has happened time and time again. You have a list of members you disagree with that you attack on here time and time again because they have differing opinions. That is fine for a regular poster but makes the site look pretty bad coming from a moderator. Whenever anyone has a differing opinion about the physicality of the game which is a touchy subject for you or other things you make baseless accusations and go on a tangent. That is also irritating. Again, if you don't like my opinion there is the ignore button. Now I am through with this. Now TOfan or someone else will break board rules and personally attack me and you will look the other way. Rinse and repeat.

Not really offering an opinion on the subject at hand, but to your comment about the ignore button: I can't help but think it would be terribly difficult for a moderator to moderate with posters on ignore. Seems like a silly suggestion for a mod.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

Not really offering an opinion on the subject at hand, but to your comment about the ignore button: I can't help but think it would be terribly difficult for a moderator to moderate with posters on ignore. Seems like a silly suggestion for a mod.

There's a valid point that I should probably let go some of the things that irritate me about some posters. It doesn't add anything of value to the board. I was cranky yesterday largely due to COVID reasons and the mask debate. It's easy to simply look past a poster even if you can't put them on ignore. So "take your own advice" is a fair point to make to me here.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

There's a valid point that I should probably let go some of the things that irritate me about some posters. It doesn't add anything of value to the board. I was cranky yesterday largely due to COVID reasons and the mask debate. It's easy to simply look past a poster even if you can't put them on ignore. So "take your own advice" is a fair point to make to me here.

I think we are all cranky due to the virus Jiri. Myself included. I apologize for jumping down your throat. Too much stress.

[AC]

To piggyback on the Arizona / Hall negotiation reports, Friedman said on 31 Thoughts he thinks Arizona has offered around $7.5M per.

Marek asked what Hall might be asking for when it comes to term. Friedman says he thinks Hall wants a stable environment and a team that can win.

[TheScorpion]

I think Hall could probably get more than that on the open market. But ultimately I think he signs here for around $8.

[Roof-Daddy]

Well that's a good number. I too think if he signs in CGY it'll be for $8m AAV. If it's any less thatd be fantastic.

[Roof-Daddy]

If the Flames lose the play in, hopefully they trade for Hall's rights. Gotta get that 1st OA haha

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If the Flames lose the play in, hopefully they trade for Hall's rights. Gotta get that 1st OA haha

I was thinking about that 1OA and a possible trade down scenario. If the Flames get that pick I could see a scenario where they trade that pick and Lucic to the Kings for the 2nd pick and maybe a couple of their 2nds?

The Kings have a fairly set roster with plenty of cap space so they could pull it off and with Turcotte and Valiardi they have some solid C prospects and can use that dynamic winger.

Flames pick Stutzle or Byfield while clearing Lucic off the books. Could be an opportunity to run with both Hall and Gaudreau for a season? They could also look at still trading Gaudreau and then adding more futures and having some money to potentially add Lehner in addition to Hall?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I was thinking about that 1OA and a possible trade down scenario. If the Flames get that pick I could see a scenario where they trade that pick and Lucic to the Kings for the 2nd pick and maybe a couple of their 2nds?

The Kings have a fairly set roster with plenty of cap space so they could pull it off and with Turcotte and Valiardi they have some solid C prospects and can use that dynamic winger.

Flames pick Stutzle or Byfield while clearing Lucic off the books. Could be an opportunity to run with both Hall and Gaudreau for a season? They could also look at still trading Gaudreau and then adding more futures and having some money to potentially add Lehner in addition to Hall?

Those cap dump trades are hard to gauge the value on, but I wouldn't mind that. Flames need a potential future #1C more than future #LW and the cupboard is pretty barren overall, plus they're still trying to win now and Lucic eating up $5.25 million in the bottom six is a real drag.

Dropping down even 1 spot and giving up Lafreniere is a risk, but clearing some dead weight, adding a very high end C prospect, plus another 2nd rounder or two would all be good things, and worth the risk IMO.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I was thinking about that 1OA and a possible trade down scenario. If the Flames get that pick I could see a scenario where they trade that pick and Lucic to the Kings for the 2nd pick and maybe a couple of their 2nds?

The Kings have a fairly set roster with plenty of cap space so they could pull it off and with Turcotte and Valiardi they have some solid C prospects and can use that dynamic winger.

Flames pick Stutzle or Byfield while clearing Lucic off the books. Could be an opportunity to run with both Hall and Gaudreau for a season? They could also look at still trading Gaudreau and then adding more futures and having some money to potentially add Lehner in addition to Hall?

Id argue that they wouldn’t need to move Lucic, as Lafrieniere will be a $1mil top 6 winger for 3 seasons.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Id argue that they wouldn’t need to move Lucic, as Lafrieniere will be a $1mil top 6 winger for 3 seasons.

Thats a good point

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Id argue that they wouldn’t need to move Lucic, as Lafrieniere will be a $1mil top 6 winger for 3 seasons.

Presumably he'd hit a number of the bonus clauses, so he won't be quite that cheap.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

If you’re always worried about your cap situation 5-6 years in the future you are never winning a cup

How many of the “Cap He’ll” situations have ever actually came back to bite a team in the rear ?

So much changes in 5 years. When you have a chance to get Elite talent you go for it . Now the issue is paying guys who are average for 5 years big money ! And that seems to be the Flames MO.

That's easy to answer. The Kings and Hawks are perfect examples of teams that went all-in and paid a steep price. The Sharks are now a mess and the Wild are going to be stuck in perpetual mediocrity. In the case of the Hawks and Kings it was probably worth it to win multiple cups but you have to make an honest assessment of your overall roster and its ability to grind out 16 playoff wins in a single season. Is there enough depth in the blueline to overcome injuries (Flames maybe have enough)? Is the goaltending Stanley Cup caliber (firm no IMO)? Do you have enough skill, tenacity and will to win to beat multiple teams that may have as much or more talent on their rosters (not that I have seen from this group)? If you don't then you better make sure you don't have a lot of other albatross contracts on the roster or you will be following the lead of those teams mentioned above and with no Stanley Cups to make it worthwhile.

I'm personally not against signing Hall to an albatross contract but I am not under any illusion that he's going to be the guy to take this franchise over the top as he hasn't done that at any stop in his NHL career. The reason I would be okay with it is because this franchise has no elite forwards in the pipeline and once Gaudreau is gone things will be dire so Hall at least for the first half of the deal will be able to fill that void and after that I would hope the GM has structured team contracts in a manner that it's one of the few bad contracts.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Presumably he'd hit a number of the bonus clauses, so he won't be quite that cheap.

True. So he’d max out at $3.8. Still a hell of a bargain if he’s producing in the top 6 as anticipated.