2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yet not on the same level offensively as Johnny.

True, but the difference over the last 2-3 years isn’t that much.

The difference in defensive play us huge.

Hockey is a two way game.


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[timbit]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yet not on the same level offensively as Johnny.

Well , in the 18-19 playoffs he was very close to 2 points a game.

His defensive play is widely considered exceptional.

Other than that....

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't understand why Stone would be considered elite but Gaudreau isn't.

Perhaps the best 2-way winger in the game and he's produced around PPG for each of the last 3 years. I'm also not sure Stone's linemates have been as good as Monahan+Lindholm.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yet not on the same level offensively as Johnny.

Sure. But he's a lot closer to Johnny offensively than Johnny is to him defensively...also worth noting that Stone produced 6G 12P in 7 playoff games last year. Gaudreau has 4G 12P in 20 career playoff games. Who's better offensively when it matters?

I take Stone on my team 10 times out of 10 given the choice between the two. We can agree to disagree.

That's kind of my dividing line for 'elite'. Who would I unhesitatingly choose? For me, it seems like a pretty quick choice for the 7 I listed compared to any of the others. Parsing between those 7 is more difficult...Stone is probably 7th, but it's a closer call.

Most of the guys on my 'bubble' are sitting on 2 great seasons...just like Johnny was before this year. My 'elite' 7 have been consistently producing for 3+ years.

[powderjunkie]

I'll also add that I'm just saying that I think there are 7 players at his position who I think are better than Gaudreau. I'm pretty sure I'd take Marner, Huberdeau, Tkachuk, Rantanen, and perhaps a few others over him too, but it's not a slam dunk.

Not sure how any of that is disrespectful to Johnny. I think he might be the most exciting, enigmatic player I've ever seen. I love watching him play. I just don't see this team going any further with him stirring the drink, so I'd like to move on ASAP and turn straw duties of to Tkachuk and Lindholm.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Perhaps the best 2-way winger in the game and he's produced around PPG for each of the last 3 years. I'm also not sure Stone's linemates have been as good as Monahan+Lindholm.




Sure. But he's a lot closer to Johnny offensively than Johnny is to him defensively...also worth noting that Stone produced 6G 12P in 7 playoff games last year. Gaudreau has 4G 12P in 20 career playoff games. Who's better offensively when it matters?

I take Stone on my team 10 times out of 10 given the choice between the two. We can agree to disagree.

That's kind of my dividing line for 'elite'. Who would I unhesitatingly choose? For me, it seems like a pretty quick choice for the 7 I listed compared to any of the others. Parsing between those 7 is more difficult...Stone is probably 7th, but it's a closer call.

Most of the guys on my 'bubble' are sitting on 2 great seasons...just like Johnny was before this year. My 'elite' 7 have been consistently producing for 3+ years.

That's fair I guess, but this latest season really pulled Johnny down. The three seasons prior he was tied with Wheeler and Pastrnak as the 4th highest point per game winger in hockey with 1.04 points per game. (Stone was 13th with 0.92)

And for 5 on 5 points per 60 Gaudreau was 3rd behind only Kucherov and Marchand. (Stone was 9th)

Someone posted on here (bax IIRC) that during that time frame of 3 seasons the only guy with a higher percentage of his teams points was McDavid.

That's pretty elite, and not a small sample size.

This latest 3/4 of a season bogged his numbers down though.

[Roof-Daddy]

It's really a shame that Stone wouldn't agree to an extension in CGY. I mean, who here wouldn't go back in time and trade Valimaki and a 1st or 2nd to have had him on the team for the last year and a half?

Hopefully he hits a wall and his contract turns into an albatross for the last 5+ years.

[Sandman]

I think it's worth noting that Stone is 6'3"202lbs. His skating may be somewhere in the vicinity of average, but he can play a physical game and isn't losing many 50/50 battles. That's of course, on top of his elite hockey sense.

[memphusk]

Too many people putting Mark Stone on a pedestal. He's good, but he's not that good.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Too many people putting Mark Stone on a pedestal. He's good, but he's not that good.

Yeah-too many GM's, scouts, pundits, coaches, team mates, broadcasters, insiders, and fans are putting him on a pedestal.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by New Era

Elite = top 10 at your position.

I disagree with this only because it sets an arbitrary number that suggests there are 10 elite players at every position in the NHL at any given time, and that’s really not true. Elite means a cut above, it means exceptional. At LW (for example) there’s maybe a few (3-5) during any given season that are a cut above, and then another tier, and then a slow drop off.

Elite has a definition, and I don’t see any reason to go beyond the definition of the word when evaluating hockey players. But it also makes it harder to define where a player ranks long term when so few sit at that level consistently.

All that said, it never really matters at the end of the day. A player might have an elite season or three elite seasons in a row, but that doesn’t mean if you acquire that player that’ll they’ll have an elite season for your team. The vast majority of players come in and out of the conversation every 2-3 years. And even most players we would comfortably define as “elite” are so in their prime, and maybe weren’t early in their career, and won’t be near the end.

[TheScorpion]

Are we putting Mark Stone on a pedestal?

[ComixZone]

I for one thing that Taylor Hall is elite.

I also think Artemi Panarin is super great, while Alex Ovechkin is wicked sick! How about that David Pasta fella? Double really great!

[dammage79]

I think Elias Lindholm is Elite. Am I doing this right?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

But we have Ryan on the bottom, we don't need another Ryan. We need a center better than Monahan.

Yes we do, how about:

Monahan, Andersson and Bennett

for

Eichel

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Yes we do, how about:

Monahan, Andersson and Bennett

for

Eichel

Do you really think that’s anywhere close to the best offer they would get for Eichel?


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[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Do you really think that’s anywhere close to the best offer they would get for Eichel?


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Depends if they think Andersson can be a top pair Dman like we do.

Who else would offer a 1b center, a R-shot top pair Dman and a 3rd liner with character and jam. all under 25 years old.

Flames wouldn't give up Tkachuk in a package and I doubt many teams would give up their Tkachuk either

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Depends if they think Andersson can be a top pair Dman like we do.

Who else would offer a 1b center, a R-shot top pair Dman and a 3rd liner with character and jam. all under 25 years old.

Flames wouldn't give up Tkachuk in a package and I doubt many teams would give up their Tkachuk either

Anderson might one day be a top painting dman, but he’s not there yet.

And most people here consider Bennett near bust territory, although I am not in that group yet.

But some team would back up the truck for Eichel.

Elite #1 centres don’t become available as a rule. Which is why he’s likely not available.


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[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Anderson might one day be a top painting dman, but he’s not there yet.

And most people here consider Bennett near bust territory, although I am not in that group yet.

But some team would back up the truck for Eichel.

Elite #1 centres don’t become available as a rule. Which is why he’s likely not available.


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I only ask for you to give an example of what's in the back of the truck?

I'm also thinking he may be asking out of Buffalo as well.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It's really a shame that Stone wouldn't agree to an extension in CGY. I mean, who here wouldn't go back in time and trade Valimaki and a 1st or 2nd to have had him on the team for the last year and a half?

Hopefully he hits a wall and his contract turns into an albatross for the last 5+ years.

Are you kidding? If Stone had arrived here half the board would be harping how he isn't that good and want (insert another high end players name here). This is exactly what will happen if Hall signs here. Within two years the majority of CP will be ragging on him and wanting to ship him out of town.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Are you kidding? If Stone had arrived here half the board would be harping how he isn't that good and want (insert another high end players name here). This is exactly what will happen if Hall signs here. Within two years the majority of CP will be ragging on him and wanting to ship him out of town.

This whole "half the board" thing is tiresome.
You have no way of knowing that. Yet you feel comfortable assigning views to 'half the board'
I suspect Stone would be loved here because he is a complete player who plays with tenacity and energy every shift.