2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[ForeverFlameFan]

Some of you are forgetting that every team that Hall has been on has relied on him to get the offense going.

I think it’d be enticing to Hall to know that he doesn’t have to carry the whole offense on his shoulders.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Love

Crosby and McDavid are the barometer for elite? Then the Flames in their entire existence have never had even one single elite player

I dunno. Iginla is the 101st best player of all time. Also, Al McInnis

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I dunno. Iginla is the 101st best player of all time. Also, Al McInnis

Iggy and McInnis were elite players, without a doubt.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Elite = top 10 at your position.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by New Era

Elite = top 10 at your position.

Ever, or at the time?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Some of you are forgetting that every team that Hall has been on has relied on him to get the offense going.

I think it’d be enticing to Hall to know that he doesn’t have to carry the whole offense on his shoulders.

You'd think so yep. I mean, even if the Flames plan was to trade Gaudreau upon signing Hall, he'd still probably be only the 2nd best LW on the team.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

Ever, or at the time?

I would say at the time.
Top 10 in their position all-time I think would be more generational.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

I would say at the time.
Top 10 in their position all-time I think would be more generational.

If that's the case, in my opinion only, elite is being thrown around far too easily.

Just by using the simplest of math, by example there are 31 teams presumably rolling four lines which leaves say 124 left wingers in the game. If ten percent of those are considered elite, at any given time there are 12 (12.4 exactly) elite left wingers in the NHL?

I suppose it depends on how strictly you define elite. To me, I'm thinking more like 3-5%

Edit: Sorry, read your post as a percentage, not a number. You're saying there are ten "elite" left wingers at any given time? Ten "elite" defense men? I still think that's too many. Ten "elite" goalies? Definitely too many.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

If that's the case, in my opinion only, elite is being thrown around far too easily.

Just by using the simplest of math, by example there are 31 teams presumably rolling four lines which leaves say 124 left wingers in the game. If ten percent of those are considered elite, at any given time there are 12 (12.4 exactly) elite left wingers in the NHL?

I suppose it depends on how strictly you define elite. To me, I'm thinking more like 3-5%

Edit: Sorry, read your post as a percentage, not a number. You're saying there are ten "elite" left wingers at any given time? Ten "elite" defense men? I still think that's too many. Ten "elite" goalies? Definitely too many.

I was just reply to your question; I'm sure the number of players at each position who are considered elite will vary in any given year.
But top 10 all time goes beyond simply elite.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

Ever, or at the time?

At the time.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, I think the Flames continued streak of overpaying middle tier talent and not winning playoff series has been excellent. Elite talent? We better stay away from that so we can then spend money on crap players who make their teammates worse.

Flames never get top tier UFA talent, Flames never have success. Not the only reason of course, but it is one of them.

I remember when UFA Brad Richards put us over the top.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by sempuki

I remember when UFA Brad Richards put us over the top.

UFA Brad Richards was 31 at the time and the Flames core he was going to be added to were all 30+ as well.

Not comparable at all.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

UFA Brad Richards was 31 at the time and the Flames core he was going to be added to were all 30+ as well.

Not comparable at all.

Also it certainly would have helped us for about 3 seasons.

[powderjunkie]

What are some examples of trades where teams have given away good players cheaply to solve cap problems? It seems more often teams pay the price to trade away a toxic cap AAV (e.g. Marleau) before giving away a quality asset.


As for elite wingers (in no particular order, IMO of course):
Pastrnak
Panarin
Marchand
Kucherov
P Kane
Ovechkin
Stone

On the Bubble:
Marner
Huberdeau
Gaudreau
Laine
Tkachuk
Forsberg
Tarasenko
Rantanen
Hall
etc. etc. etc.

I'd find it hard to include any of these guys on the bubble without adding several others. I'd find it hard to call Hall elite without doing so for another 10 or so guys, too.

I think the list for Centres and D-men would be a bit longer, and rightly so because they are more important positions.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

What are some examples of trades where teams have given away good players cheaply to solve cap problems? It seems more often teams pay the price to trade away a toxic cap AAV (e.g. Marleau) before giving away a quality asset.


As for elite wingers (in no particular order, IMO of course):
Pastrnak
Panarin
Marchand
Kucherov
P Kane
Ovechkin
Stone

On the Bubble:
Marner
Huberdeau
Gaudreau
Laine
Tkachuk
Forsberg
Tarasenko
Rantanen
Hall
etc. etc. etc.

I'd find it hard to include any of these guys on the bubble without adding several others. I'd find it hard to call Hall elite without doing so for another 10 or so guys, too.

I think the list for Centres and D-men would be a bit longer, and rightly so because they are more important positions.

I don't understand why Stone would be considered elite but Gaudreau isn't.

[Heavy Jack]

The lack of love and true respect at times from some posters for what Gaudreau brings is truly astounding to me and I’m not lumping powderjunkies post into this it’s just in general be it the media, these forums or otherwise. Gaudreau has provided elite hockey most of the time he’s been here, this past year is an outlier for sure to me. I personally want to see Gaudreau extended; I love him here and I want to see one last top end piece added for some true swings here over the next half decade. It’s tough because I do see both sides to this coin, I see the advantages of trading him and if we can’t extend him early on during that window than I agree the it’s the best choice to maximize your assets but my heart as a flames fan appreciates everything Johnny has brought to this club and hopes that it’s still just the beginning.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't understand why Stone would be considered elite but Gaudreau isn't.

I'd probably have Rantanen on the elite list before Gaudreau or Stone too

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

The lack of love and true respect at times from some posters for what Gaudreau brings is truly astounding to me and I’m not lumping powderjunkies post into this it’s just in general be it the media, these forums or otherwise. Gaudreau has provided elite hockey most of the time he’s been here, this past year is an outlier for sure to me. I personally want to see Gaudreau extended; I love him here and I want to see one last top end piece added for some true swings here over the next half decade. It’s tough because I do see both sides to this coin, I see the advantages of trading him and if we can’t extend him early on during that window than I agree the it’s the best choice to maximize your assets but my heart as a flames fan appreciates everything Johnny has brought to this club and hopes that it’s still just the beginning.

It’s just a common theme for hockey fans in general, at least the ones that don’t have generational talent.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't understand why Stone would be considered elite but Gaudreau isn't.

Stone plays a great 200 foot game.


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[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Stone plays a great 200 foot game.


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Yet not on the same level offensively as Johnny.