2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Yup. I meam I'm looking at their Capfriendly roster and there's not much else they do/hope for. You're not going to lose your franchise player, full stop.

Baffles me that ppl think NTCs are impossible to work.with. "hey brock, we gotta move you, where do you want to go?".

Brocl: "If not here then I'll go to these cities"

Isles: "K thnx"

I am sure every one of those teams also has the want and the ability to take on a soon to be 29 year old with 5 more years at $6M per without sending any salary back because that is an absolute steal for a 50pt player.

Not many teams are going to have that flexibility so not sure why you think it is that easy?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Lol at Hall being elite talent. He has had one year that would be considered an elite showing.

627 games played with a 0.9ppg average let’s not pretend he is a flash in the pan one year wonder

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am sure every one of those teams also has the want and the ability to take on a soon to be 29 year old with 5 more years at $6M per without sending any salary back because that is an absolute steal for a 50pt player.

Not many teams are going to have that flexibility so not sure why you think it is that easy?

Did I say it was easy? I was saying.its not impossible. If you want to dissect my imaginary conversation between the Isles and Nelson, go ahead.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

627 games played with a 0.9ppg average let’s not pretend he is a flash in the pan one year wonder

I am not saying he is but he is certainly not elite. Crosby is elite. McDavid is elite. Hall is a top line offensive LW when he is actually healthy and giving a damn on the ice.

[Love]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am not saying he is but he is certainly not elite. Crosby is elite. McDavid is elite. Hall is a top line offensive LW when he is actually healthy and giving a damn on the ice.

Crosby and McDavid are the barometer for elite? Then the Flames in their entire existence have never had even one single elite player

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Yup. I meam I'm looking at their Capfriendly roster and there's not much else they do/hope for. You're not going to lose your franchise player, full stop.

Baffles me that ppl think NTCs are impossible to work.with. "hey brock, we gotta move you, where do you want to go?".

Brocl: "If not here then I'll go to these cities"

Isles: "K thnx"

lol, I'm sure it would be that easy, but even if it was I doubt there will be many teams willing to take on a $6 million AAV near 30 year old 50 point C with a flat cap.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am not saying he is but he is certainly not elite. Crosby is elite. McDavid is elite. Hall is a top line offensive LW when he is actually healthy and giving a damn on the ice.

I get it everyone has a different definition of elite. For some it is the top 10-15% of players and others it is the top 1% so depending where one lands on that I can see how the elite debate can occur

[Roof-Daddy]

Hall's point per game the last 5 seasons ranks him 25th in the league for forwards, and his 5 on 5 points per 60 minutes ranks him 34th in the league for forwards.

So whatever your definition of elite is doesn't really matter, bottom line is the Flames would be getting a pretty damn good offensive player if they signed Hall.

[Zulu29]

I think guys like McDavid and Crosby are generational or franchise talents. Elite is a murky term but I believe those two are a cut above.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Yup. I meam I'm looking at their Capfriendly roster and there's not much else they do/hope for. You're not going to lose your franchise player, full stop.

Baffles me that ppl think NTCs are impossible to work.with. "hey brock, we gotta move you, where do you want to go?".

Brocl: "If not here then I'll go to these cities"

Isles: "K thnx"

Or Brock likes New York, and says "no" after the first question. There's nothing the islanders would be able to do.
That's actually the entire point of having an NTC.

Edit: also it is very very hopeful to say Ladd will be willing to retire- not even millionaires leave millions on the table. He's not retiring unless there's a cap circumvention plan by paying him as a development coach the same salary or something. Can't see Isles ownership loving that arrangement.

They are in trouble- hand waiving their problems away is a fairy tale. Personally I am equally interested in Pulock: Western Canada boy with unreal underlying numbers, RHD, booming point shot.

That's literally the entire point of asking for the NTC from the player's side. The fact that its a full NTC and not partial means they cant even expect a list of teams to work with. He can just say "no" and they have to deal with it.

Also, NYI already did lose a franchise player to FA, what makes you think they are immune to doing it again?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Or Brock likes New York, and says "no" after the first question. There's nothing the islanders would be able to do.

Edit: also it is very very hopeful to say Ladd will be willing to retire- not even millionaires leave millions on the table. He's not retiring unless there's a cap circumvention plan by paying him as a development coach the same salary or something. Can't see Isles ownership loving that arrangement.

They are in trouble- hand waiving their problems away is a fairy tale. Personally I am equally interested in Pulock: Western Canada boy with unreal underlying numbers, RHD, booming point shot.

That's literally the entire point of asking for the NTC from the player's side. The fact that its a full NTC and not partial means they cant even expect a list of teams to work with. He can just say "no" and they have to deal with it.

Also, NYI already did lose a franchise player to FA, what makes you think they are immune to doing it again?

Players with NTCs have been traded before. The point was its not impossible. And look, Tavares walked. We are talking about a 23 year old RFA right now. They won't let him go. Offers heat or not. Criticize the delivery of my point all you guys want. Or perhaps get creative and find solutions for isles 8n conversation. IDC really. If not Nelson then who? If Ladd is never playing again and retires (most likely outcome) then they still need space. Cant make space on D, they literally just signed Pageau, Lee is their Captain and although no impossible a Captain moves its just as unlikely.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Players with NTCs have been traded before. The point was its not impossible. And look, Tavares walked. We are talking about a 23 year old RFA right now. They won't let him go. Offers heat or not. Criticize the delivery of my point all you guys want. Or perhaps get creative and find solutions for isles 8n conversation. IDC really. If not Nelson then who? If Ladd is never playing again and retires (most likely outcome) then they still need space. Cant make space on D, they literally just signed Pageau, Lee is their Captain and although no impossible a Captain moves its just as unlikely.

Bailey doesn't have trade protection and neither does Leddy, those would be two possibilities I suppose. And even though they just traded for and extended Pageau, his NTC doesn't kick in until November 1st so that's an option as well. Boychuk's NTC is limited but his play has fallen off a cliff so I doubt anyone trades for two years of him unless the Isles retain 50% and attach an asset to him.

Also, I don't see Ladd leaving $12 million on the table to retire, but if he's really injured I guess LTIR is always an option like we've seen with Horton and Clarkson etc...

I'm sure it could be done, but it sure wouldn't be easy. Hopefully it happens so we can find out how nimble ole Lou is while he's jumping through all the hoops.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Players with NTCs have been traded before. The point was its not impossible. And look, Tavares walked. We are talking about a 23 year old RFA right now. They won't let him go. Offers heat or not. Criticize the delivery of my point all you guys want. Or perhaps get creative and find solutions for isles 8n conversation. IDC really. If not Nelson then who? If Ladd is never playing again and retires (most likely outcome) then they still need space. Cant make space on D, they literally just signed Pageau, Lee is their Captain and although no impossible a Captain moves its just as unlikely.

Full NTCs? Maybe, but it's usually a rare, drawn-out process. Let's use the Lucic example: full NMC, and he was traded, but only after a very drawn out process of negotiation that included direct conversation between lucic and the ownership/management of both clubs involved, and beyond that he was traded for a player with an equally bad contract.
Frankly I was more interested in just contesting your non-chalance about the NTC than fixing the isles- I am puzzled why you think the NTC would exist if it were so easy to get around.

Your take on Ladd is equally puzzling. If we're considering Ladd's best personal interest, there's no chance he retires. Why would Ladd consider anything but what's best for him and his family? Retiring means no money for the remainder of his contract. Why would he agree to that? If he's too injured to play then he would be lobbying for LTIR a la Horton/Pronger.

I don't think there is an easy fix for the Isles. Signing Pageau was probably a huge mistake in retrospect (but who could have predicted all of this...) They are one of the primary victims of the flat cap situation. Could they trade off other pieces? Well, maybe. But they aren't going to be making their team better (or likely getting anything of value) in those trades because people know they're in deep ####.

I would maybe take a flyer on a slightly-used Jordan Eberle if he came cheap. I'm thinking like 3rd rounder cheap.

[Harry Lime]

New York Islanders

UFAs that arn't going to be signed, Matt Martin, Derrick Brassard, Andy Green, Tom Greiss which adds up to approx. 12M. Cizkas and Pelech come off of injured reserve, so that adds about 5M (but subtracts the 3M that they are using for LTIR).

10M to play with, is about a contract for Barzal. So then they need three additional roster players and raises to Pulock and Toews.

They need to come up with about 7ishM to start the year next year. I could see Josh Bailey being sold to Detroit for basically nothing, and they would pay draft capital for someone to take Kormarov, maybe New Jersey again.

And there you go.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I would rather swallow a live grenade.

Done.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Done.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Your callous words wound me deeper than a cut from the finest paper.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Lol at Hall being elite talent. He has had one year that would be considered an elite showing.

You've gotten a little bit of pushback on this, but I think it's worth stating. Hall is a very good LW, but outside of his one season, there's nothing that screams "best of the best."

Marchand and Panarin are elite. Ovechkin is an elite LW or at least still in that conversation thanks to his ability to dominate a game and the fact that he's absolutely still an elite goal-scorer. Hall is offence-only and benefitted greatly in his Hart trophy season by being the only real option NJ had.

Hall is a good player, a great LW, but imo a downgrade on Gaudreau and nowhere close to the truly elite LW like Marchand, Panarin, and Ovechkin. I'm fine with getting Hall because the foregone conclusion is that we're going to lose Gaudreau, but I hope nobody thinks it's a real upgrade on the position. The upgrade is strictly from the assets that could be gained in trading Gaudreau. Hell, even Tkachuk has been a better LW over the last couple seasons. He's closer to elite than Hall is.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am not saying he is but he is certainly not elite. Crosby is elite. McDavid is elite. Hall is a top line offensive LW when he is actually healthy and giving a damn on the ice.

I think I probably agree that he's a top line player, but not elite. However, considering the thread, and the fact that someone just referred to Lars Eller as elite, I don't think calling Hall elite is crazy, in the context of this thread at least.

[bax]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You've gotten a little bit of pushback on this, but I think it's worth stating. Hall is a very good LW, but outside of his one season, there's nothing that screams "best of the best."

Marchand and Panarin are elite. Ovechkin is an elite LW or at least still in that conversation thanks to his ability to dominate a game and the fact that he's absolutely still an elite goal-scorer. Hall is offence-only and benefitted greatly in his Hart trophy season by being the only real option NJ had.

Hall is a good player, a great LW, but imo a downgrade on Gaudreau and nowhere close to the truly elite LW like Marchand, Panarin, and Ovechkin. I'm fine with getting Hall because the foregone conclusion is that we're going to lose Gaudreau, but I hope nobody thinks it's a real upgrade on the position. The upgrade is strictly from the assets that could be gained in trading Gaudreau. Hell, even Tkachuk has been a better LW over the last couple seasons. He's closer to elite than Hall is.

Agree with you here. I wouldn't mind getting Hall and rolling with him and Gaudreau next season and then moving Gaudreau in the summer (if it's 100% decided that he won't be signing)

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You've gotten a little bit of pushback on this, but I think it's worth stating. Hall is a very good LW, but outside of his one season, there's nothing that screams "best of the best."

Marchand and Panarin are elite. Ovechkin is an elite LW or at least still in that conversation thanks to his ability to dominate a game and the fact that he's absolutely still an elite goal-scorer. Hall is offence-only and benefitted greatly in his Hart trophy season by being the only real option NJ had.

Hall is a good player, a great LW, but imo a downgrade on Gaudreau and nowhere close to the truly elite LW like Marchand, Panarin, and Ovechkin. I'm fine with getting Hall because the foregone conclusion is that we're going to lose Gaudreau, but I hope nobody thinks it's a real upgrade on the position. The upgrade is strictly from the assets that could be gained in trading Gaudreau. Hell, even Tkachuk has been a better LW over the last couple seasons. He's closer to elite than Hall is.

Yeah, Hall is definitely a downgrade on Johnny, but he would be a guard against losing Johnny for nothing and then having a massive hole left because of it. That would be worst case. Best case is you trade Johnny before he leaves as a UFA and then you still have Hall plus a whole bunch of other solid assets for trading Gaudreau.